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Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by helterskelter07, Nov 13, 2007.
The one with HO in Vevey is totally kosher. Go there with no worries.
I didn't realise salaries in Q8 were so low. If the reports of 1200KD being top of the range are true surely Q8 is a country for the deperate; several schools in SE Asia pay this as the average, not the top salary, and they are far more pleasant places to live in.
Well Mistermaker tell me where exactly I can earn the sums you are talking about, tax free along with free housing and utilities and tuition thrown in if you feel like earning some extra? I'd love to know.
It depends entirely on your experience and qualifications. If you're good enough there are plenty of schools in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, etc offering better packages than the 12000KD mentioned. I was surprised that this figure is quoted as 'top' salary. I can't name schools but I know of at least three that will offer better 'net' salaries (ignore tax free, as it's what you get at the end of the day that counts). My own school offers equivalent salaries for the average teacher. Tuition fees are only important for a small group of expats, but several schools in SE Asia offer full discount or reduced fees. As to utilities, even if you have to pay your own, if your salary is better you can afford it (my water bill is £0, and my electric averages about £20!)
So my point is this: why go to a place like Kuwait, which is bordering on hardship status, when better salaries are on offer in better countries. I've never worked in Q8 (got offered a headship a few years ago, but turned it down). At 12000KD top salary (can't imagine what the lowest salary is), the kind of teacher taking that would tend towards the 'chipped and cracked' as a well known lady said to me once (not about me, but in relation to salaries offered).
How rude and patronising to suggest that teachers in Kuwait must be sub-standard. As you say yourself in your smug little post, you have never worked there and therefore can know absolutely nothing about the calibre of teacher. How on earth can you judge someone's ability based on their pay packet??
Looks like the schools in Kuwait had a lucky escape when you turned down a job.
I'm simply trying to reason why someone would go to Q8 on a lower salary than is available is more pleasant countries; unless there is a compelling reason one can only lead to a negative conclusion.
You have failed to give a valid reason but prefer to attack my integrity. Perhaps that says all I need to hear if you are a typical Q8 teacher.
On the other hand, I'm sure there's better folk than you working there. Perhaps a decent teacher who has worked in the place can explain why they went there.
If you are supposed to be running a school, how on earth do you spend so much time on these forums. You must have a bloody great deputy!!! Haven't you got some work to do? You must be the most frequent contributor to this forum.
I still say Kuwait has little to offer other than the free booze, cheap petrol and weather (was good enough for me for a few years), which can sometimes be a little too hot. It's very difficult to sum up the Kuwaiti people but very few ex-pats formulate friendships with the locals.
There's is nothing to see either, no culture, no sites....nothing. Theme parks, malls, some more malls, some really big FO malls. I think they are in the process of building a big mall, too.
But I know where Tica is coming from; you make your own life there and that can be rewarding. Get in a good school and working life can be quite pleasant. I really like the phrase about chipped and cracked and I think you do suit that, Tica. Easy for me to say because if I am not that, I am certainly fraying at the edges!
It's all coincidence but the worst teachers I have ever worked with were in Kuwait - Christ there were some cases, but because more people want to work abroad now, even Kuwait can be a bit pickier than they were before.
..from the comfort of their Ferraris and Lambos.
Next year top salaries in Kuwait will be between 1300 to over 1400KD a month (depending on school) which at present exchange rates can be over 37000 sterling a year (tax free). I am wondering how this is peanuts? Tell that to teachers in the UK.
As for quality of teachers there are some great ones and some poor ones everywhere. The people who really make a difference, it seems to me, are the school leaders. Unfortunately, worldwide, it seems that many of these really are a strange bunch. Often terrible in a classroom and with the social skills of a 5 year old child. Self confidence is one thing but deluded arrogance is another.
Obviously, there are some really great school leaders but sadly they seem few and far between,
of a 'spoilt' 5 Year ol child....
Maybe some, but I have the evidence from Ofsted that suggests otherwise for myself (outstanding by two different inspectors )
I'll go along with FP's additional spoilt bit - if you call violent working class upbringing spoilt.
Fair point for arrogance, but the deluded is for time to judge.
I don't think great is what many genuinely aim for when good is enough. I'd argue there's lots of good ones around and only a few bad apples. What I do come across (especially in these forums) are mediocre teachers who don't have what it takes to be a leadership contender who snipe at heads due to their own inadequacies.
'Time held me green and dying, though I sang in my chains like the sea.' DT
How do you know? Just from a poster's comments, you can tell if they are a medicore teacher? That is a skill, MM!
My experiences of Heads hasn't neccesarily been drawn from schools that I have worked in.
I have met Heads (yes, that's met) who should have gone from 'mediocre, or worse, teacher' to straight out of the profession, rather than got pushed out of the way (oops, upwards), or even listened to their own inflated opinions of themselves and wormed their way upwards.
As many schools in Kuwait had shocking leaders as those with good ones.
Hope none of this applies to you, MM, as much as the 'sniping due to inadequacies', doesn't apply to me.
'If a leader is good, they are good; if they're not, they're not.' FP
Talk about being a legend in your own mind. You should change your username to Onan the barbarian. Far more apposite.
In the words of a former colleague, you have disappeared so far up your own a**e that all we can see are the tips of your stilletos.
I wasn't particularly referring to you MisterMaker so I am not sure why you seem so defensive. Also I am not trying to be particularly insightful just giving my opinion which you obviously disagree with. Fair enough!
I am interested to know how you judge a teacher's performance based on forum posts. Maybe those OFSTED inspectors you refer to could weed out the weaker teachers simply by signing up here.
The main point I wanted to make was that the bigger schools in Kuwait do give competitive salaries.
I wouldn't dream of calling you mediocre. As mentioned, I was offered and turned down a headship in Kuwait - didn't see it as a positive move. So I'm not one of those shocking HTs from q8.
When some of the teachers I have read comments from say some of the things they do, it is clear that they are mediocre at best in so far as the understanding of teaching and learning is concerned. Doesn't take special skills to realise that.
However, I will admit my '5 year old old inside' does come out too often on these boards and my sarcasm does get the better of me occassionally. Nevertheless, I was surprised that Kuwait salaries are as low as they are - yes, if 1300 is top salary, that is low. What is the lowest salary? Or the typical one?
I didn't read it as a personal coment against me either, simply putting the argument against you assumptions about 'typical' HTs.
And my point is that if the <u>TOP</u> salaries are so low (relative to top salaries elsewhere) it isn't going to attract the cream of the profession. (I feel like a broken record.)
Let's leave aside whether salary really is the main attraction for the best teachers.
I simply disagree that the salary is low. In fact many teachers in Kuwait fear becoming 'trapped' by the fact that when they move on they often have to take a significant drop in salary.
I daresay there are some schools that pay more but the chances of even the most brilliant and outstanding teachers of getting those few jobs is small compared to the chances of getting a very well paid job in Kuwait. Many very good international schools offer much lower salaries than those I have quoted.
I second this. I teach at one of the Big 3 and would describe my job as "middle management" and get paid 1600 KD. a month. I had several job offers last year from other schools around the world and nothing came close to the packages offered in Kuwait. Yes, Kuwait has its issues but this is more than compensated by the very comfortable lifestyle you can have here.
Ex-colleague and friend of mine has been there with his misses and family for 24 years. Kids have gone through the school there; a very academically minded one and all gone on to Uni etc etc.
There are ways of creating a good, easy way of life over there. But it does have its limitations.
MM, the salaries there don't sound too bad - Dubai and other 'expensive' places don't offer those salaries...
'truth', is 1600KD about £4,000? KD 1300 would be Three grand plus?
I am not really near that but do have a lot of extras on with the package. Wouldn't mind a few more bob for beer if it was offered...
Kuwait home brew....hmmmm..