1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

recent meeting of SNCT - EIS response

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by braemar, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    Sounds awful. Have you contacted your union about your own situation? They can't do anything if you don't.
  2. ryeland

    ryeland New commenter

    st joseph
    No offence at all - just worried that this thread may turn into the usual sterile rant re denomonational schools, if you know who picks up on it.
    All communication with my union is ignored. I am changing union. I am beginning to think that supply teachers are being sacrificed, and that the battlelines are being drawn further up the scale of attacks. I am actually on a temporary contract now, which gives a green light to my getting my jotters off other councils. The trouble is, you cannot get back in again, and one authority is giving preference to folk with a special qualification - the one they got in 2011. If you are not on the supply lists, you are disqualified from applying for jobs in certain authorities, so you cannot even compete for work. I am beginning to fear for my career.

  3. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    Very disappointing to hear. To be removed from a supply register just before 'internal only' jobs are advertised is fishy indeed. However, I think I've heard in the past you're only considered internal if you are actually working for the council, not just on their supply register. I'm not sure though. Anyway, maybe write to or call someone higher up in the union (if you haven't done so), call to TESS to report the situation (which may cause them to dig around) and write to or call your MSP.
  4. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    You could always sell the Unicorn.

    Mine costs an absolute fortune
  5. Ryeland
    I too rely on supply to support my family. The way that supply teachers are being treated is nothing short of a disgrace. I contacted the EIS when I first heard about the proposal to pay at point 1 of the salary scale. First of all, they gave me a number to contact that was no longer in use and then they said that I wasn't to worry because it wouldn't affect long-term supply teachers.
    However, it does affect people in my situation. I am lucky enough to have a permanent part-time job but I need supply on my other days. So I will be paid at point 1 and only for contact and I will lose a huge amount of money, if I can actually get supply at all.
    The EIS has all but forgotten about people like me. I'm not a probationer or an NQT so I will be ignored.
    The whole situation is very frustrating and I cannot see a way out of it. These decisions will not affect the balloons at the top of the tree or those in the SG so who will care!

  6. sbf

    sbf New commenter

    Sorry but no one cares.
    Get yourself a decent job and out of teaching, anyone on supply right now is a dea man walking.
    LAs have changed the way schools can ask for supply cover and extended the time before the LA will pay almost to the point were school are forced to give it out as please takes even over and above the 22.5hrs.
    Schools are more in control of their own supply budgets now with the insentive to save and spend the money on other things.
    Get into banking.

  7. This is "advice" from someone whose attitude flipped 180 degrees when they were lucky enough to land a permanent job.
    Before this it was "poor wee me, I cannae find a job,m what am I going to do, please help me".
    After it was "I've got a job, I'm alright, if you can't find a job then go do something else".
    Schizophrenic chicken?
  8. ryeland

    ryeland New commenter

    Sad is it not. Nobody cares about us zombies. Yes getting out is on the agenda, looks like there may not be a choice.
    Since qualifying, I have usualy had a job - (3 out of 4 years) always temp, or long term supply. In recent years they are almost all that are going. When the job ends, it's a matter of time before the next 'phone call to help out a school with replacing a member of staff who has an unexpected illness.
    The trouble is - all this work has come from being on a supply list and actually showing up in schools on occasions and working hard. When your children are told that they cannot have a chemistry teacher anymore - who are they going to call. I will be invisible.
    Thinking positively - I still got called by one school in an authority which sacked me, and had to turn down a couple of terms when I was tracked down by comparing attendees at a conference against a list of working teachers. I was already booked.
    I am confident that somebody will need my services in the future - how can they find me, and I them when I am no longer on any supply lists? (assuming I get bumped from my last authority)

    As for the application process - I have in the past been able to apply for internal positions in Edinburgh - these made up the bulk of last year's interviews. It is very cynical, but the needs of the "golden cohort" and SNP are paramount.

  9. sbf

    sbf New commenter

  10. sbf

    sbf New commenter

    The whole of the last semester we did not have a single supply teacher in our school, i there were many people off work.
    Its getting very tight, and the DHTs are protecting their budgets big style.

  11. I have to say that I was quite irritated by your post sbf. You are probably right. . . but with that attitude, we may as well just give up and let the SG and LAs rip up our pay and conditions and start again.
    Also, I could have made a comment about your spelling but . . .
  12. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    Going back to the original post, as someone with a bit of experience in the elected bit of local government, here's my thoughts on the likelihood of the points happening...
    (1) Removal of Lifetime Salary Conservation. Sorry, but I think this one is a bit of a no-brainer for most LAs. My understanding of the staff left in the "demoted" posts is that the majority (in my LA at least) have been offered either equivalents or early retirement, and have refused both. Remember, though, that although an immediate drop would save money now, this could be negotiated to a salary "freeze" until the individual's salary drops within the pay scale for their current post - so moving to, say, the unpromoted scale and receiving no increase either on the spine or on through overall increase until the salary is back on scale.
    (2) Short term supply teachers to be paid at Scale Point 1 and only for teaching hours. Again, I'd expect something like this to happen, but probably not as blunt as this. What I could see is supply teachers not going up a point on the scale until they've completed the equivalent of one year's teaching. I'm also not sure about the "teaching hours" point - that to me would need someone to look at McCrone again and although officers have an appetite for reviewing this I don't think elected people (on the whole, with the possible exception of the SNP) do.
    (3) Freeze on entry to and progression through the Chartered Teacher Scheme. Not sure about this one.
    (4) Cutting annual paid leave entitlement to 40 days. If the unions agree to this in any shape or form then frankly I'll eat my hat! If it refers only to the parental leave (as other posters have said) then I suspect this will go through - but would it produce much of a saving and would it be worth the fight?
    (5) Increasing maximum probationer contact time from 0.7 to 0.9 of that for a fully registered teacher. The GTC has already voiced clear opposition to this one, and added to the fact that the Scottish scheme has been praised in international reports it would politically be a very difficult one to take. It would also further reduce opportunities for supply teachers, in an already decreasing market. I think this might not be taken in this form but there will be some reviews on this.

  13. That's what happens anyway.
    McCrone is being reviewed. Besides, short term cover is supposed to be set by the PT so there is an argument which says that supply teachers don't need the planning time.
    I thought it was interesting that they seem to be saying at 0.9 they would expect it to take longer to gain full registration. Was it just me who thought school would be delighted at the thought of TWO years of cheap labour?
  14. Sounds quite plausible. We can only hope that the final outcome is less draconian. Point one could be problematical and may vary from region to region. In my region the remaining PT subjects are still in post but working within a faculty system. We have a local agreement which states this and that we are expected to continue to do our promoted jobs. The PTs are doing this where they still exist and in my school are making a major contribution as they are significant factors in creating the stongest faculties. Latest union advice on this is that they probably would be placed on the PT scale but on thier 'job sized' salary. This would still mean wage reduction but not nearly as severe at going to the teacher scale.They would of course lose salary conservation, but still retain their PT post because they are still doing the job and have a contract to that effect.
  15. I had no intention in offending anybody by putting this suggestion forward. It is my strong opinion, which I am entitled to, to think that it would serve a triple purpose - save money, reduce carbon emission, stop promoting segregation from an early age. The promotion of any faith should come from the home, not the school. Schools should promote awareness and tolerance of faith.
  16. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    I'm sure you didn't mean to cause offense. My reply was possibly overly defensive! However, Catholic schools are very important to the Catholic Church. Yes, the main promotion of faith should of course be from home. However, Catholic schools in Scotland are an essential branch of the Catholic Church. Other faiths don't require such close involvement with schools as Catholicism does and I realise it's difficult to understand if you're not from a Catholic background. I have to say, I'm no longer a practising Catholic but still maintain Catholics have a right to Catholic schools. I do not believe they promote segregation. There is no evidence to support that. Catholic schools I attended have worked in have had a much nicer atmosphere and more inclusive ethos than non-denominational ones. That's just my limited experience though.
  17. If Supply staff are to be paid at point 1 on the salary scale - is it not obvious that HTs and councils would rather have staff covering maternity/lon-ish term sickness from the supply lists rather than short-term contract staff? They'll save a fortune!
    The supply teaching staff would still be expected to work like normal contract teachers, planning, preparing, assessing, partaking in extra curricular, but for possibly a third less on the salary.
    This concerns me as I am currently on the supply lists. And panicking.
  18. ryeland

    ryeland New commenter

    I believe it is currently just short term appointments that will be penalised. Once in for more than a few days and in your subject (if secondary) you are a normal teacher - whether that will be recognised or not?

    A more pressing worry is staying on the supply lists. I have been kicked off all but one of mine.
  19. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    Don't panic. Nothing has been agreed by anyone. The employers have put forward a shopping list which is full of flaws and problems such as you mention. AFAIK union reps have simply met with employers reps to thrash out these issues. BUT to repeat - NOTHING has been agreed.
  20. If the annual paid leave entitlement is cut to 40 days, the remainder would be classed as a school closure. That effectively means YES. School closure relates to pupils - staff could be called in to work as their authority sees fit for in service training etc. Don't be fooled that this is a paper exercise for the purpose of cutting down the amount of holiday leave a teacher can accrue on maternity or sick leave - this is an out an out attack on your pay and conditions of service.
    Re the supply teachers being paid at 0.1 and only for hours spent in front of the class - who's going to be doing the marking at the end of the day, who'd preparing the next day's lessons and who's going to be writing the hand over? Shambles I think!
    The majority of teachers are generally reticent when it comes to standing up for their rights - particularly in primary where staff rooms are full of married women whose pay is a second income and who have a very well developed conscience about the interests of the children coming first.
    They need to wake up and consider these 'proposals' , see them for what they are and for once put their own interests first and should this result in a ballot for industrial action, support it and come out on strike.
    Personally any erosion to my working conditions will be met with this response - A permanent end to my participation in residential trips, evening concerts, parent information evenings, holiday working to prepare a classroom for the coming session, Saturday morning school fairs, bingo nights, discos, extra curricular activities - forget the lot! And by the by - if we have a reduced annual leave forced upon us - does that mean we can take the reduced 40 days when we like - at our convenience, i.e. off peak when the flights are cheaper, like the rest of the UK workforce?

Share This Page