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Reasonable Working Hours?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by imaginarynumbers, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. imaginarynumbers

    imaginarynumbers New commenter


    For background, recently there has been a change in leadership at my school (secondary) who constantly likes to remind staff about the Teacher Standards, the evidence needed to prove that they have been met and how this may affect performance management. Result = more pointless paperwork. On the back of this, running interventions after school and during the Easter Holidays is expected pressure is applied (through strong implication) that not doing so may have adverse effects on performance management targets (I've flatly refused and have another job lined up). Other things, which may be seen as above and beyond, are now expected as routine and frowned upon if it is not happening (are you meeting the teacher standards?)

    So prior to this, I've always enjoyed working hard and not particularly thought about the hours I put in - I just do what needs getting done - I could see the benefits of what I was carrying out. However, with the increase of paperwork justifying that I am doing my job, useless meetings, intervention sessions being expected and then hours of prescribed marking (that would be better spent on planning) I've lost all sense of what is reasonable.

    As professionals we are salaried and expected to carry out our duties to complete our tasks. However, we are also entitled to a work-life balance. My question is this, what do you think is a reasonable amount of hours to work in term time and what is a reasonable amount of hours to work outside of term time (at home or in school without students)?

    Thank you for reading - I'd appreciate if comments weren't too flippant :)
  2. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Not flippant, but the people are clowns. I don't know where they come from. They sound like the sort of buffoons who "were the first in the family to get a degree" etc.

    You are right to leave

    A 40 hour week is more than reasonable, with work out of term time etc being only that which you need to do to prepare to a professional standard - and only to be done at home, not in school.
  3. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    [QUOTE="Scintillant, post: 12039725, member: 2777120" They sound like the sort of buffoons who "were the first in the family to get a degree" etc.

    Ahem...Did you really mean this?

    FW MA (Cantab) - the first (but not the last) in his family to go to University!
  4. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Yes, I meant it. Seems to be a common thread in some of these school issues. Lots of people with degrees nowadays that I do not see as degree calibre people. They get some power and become little Hitlers. Prejudicial of me I know Frank, but I've seen too much of it to ignore or pretend to myself it's not a factor.
    Duke of York and lexus300 like this.
  5. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Colleges are full of them now.
  6. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    It's possible to work long hours and enjoy it, but only if its on your terms and the incentive to do it is rewarding. Imposed long hours without reward, doing work that's been directed is neither fair nor justifiable.

    When I was selling machinery to schools, there was usually little time in the school day for teachers to have meaningful conversations about the machines. I let them have my mobile number and home email address so they could communicate with me when they had the time. I enjoyed explaining the technical aspects of the machines, so never regarded it as a chore, any more than it's a chore to set the world to rights on here. Having better informed customers usually resulted in a sale that my competitors didn't get, so it was financially rewarding.

    But the most important part was that it was my choice to do this, not someone else's.
    sabrinakat, jellycowfish and wanet like this.
  7. Jolly_Roger1

    Jolly_Roger1 Star commenter

    There you have it. If you can see the reason behind what you are being asked to do, and you can see the beneficial outcome, you at least have a sense of achievement. When you are ordered to spend long hours on pointless bullsh$t, it soon grinds you down.
    Anonymity likes this.
  8. girlwithnoname

    girlwithnoname Occasional commenter

    Doesn't that mean you were one of the reasons teachers had to work extra hours?
  9. marlin

    marlin Star commenter

    I've recently heard of the 'Fair Workload' scheme operating in Nottinghamshire. I'm not sure if other counties have or will adopt it, but it certainly seems a positive start to addressing the workload of school staff.
  10. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    Teachers being paid by the hour, rather than being paid a salary is the only way to stop the long hours culture in the teaching profession.
    Anonymity likes this.
  11. palmtree100

    palmtree100 Lead commenter

    If only, Scintillant, 40 hours! Teachers would be flooding back to the classroom!

    Too much talk nowadays about the slackers who go home at 5pm (often because they have young children), even if they are then on the computer til midnight and all day Sunday! In my experience people are judged by how late they stay. I hear comments like "Well he's here till 6 .30 so he's putting in the hours..." Or " Oh he's so good, he's stays till about 7 o'clock!"
    Anonymity likes this.
  12. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    Ahem...Did you really mean this?

    FW MA (Cantab) - the first (but not the last) in his family to go to University![/QUOTE]
    I was the first in my family to get a degree too. I don't know what @Scintillant is getting at there. Working class people of my parent's generation didn't have the opportunity of education beyond the age of 14 or 15.
    FrankWolley and vannie like this.
  13. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    About 40.
    Anonymity likes this.
  14. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    I was the first in my family to get a degree too. I don't know what @Scintillant is getting at there. Working class people of my parent's generation didn't have the opportunity of education beyond the age of 14 or 15.[/QUOTE]

    My Dad, in the 1930s, left school to start a job at £1 10s a week because it had 'prospects'... :eek:

    He was every bit as clever as I am - or either of my children, his grandchildren - but we three have 6 degrees between us, and he never had the chance.
    palmtree100, ROSIEGIRL and InkyP like this.
  15. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    5pm are slackers?
  16. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    My Dad is one of the most knowledgeable people I know - all self-taught. He failed to get in at the Grammar school in 1936 because of his colour blindness.
  17. chrisoakey

    chrisoakey Occasional commenter

    The formula is very simple.
    We are in school for 39 weeks per year. Allowing for one week of work in our holiday allocation let's round it up to 40.
    40 x 45 hours worked per working week = 1800 hours.
    Now, most UK workers get a minimum of 4 weeks holiday so let's divide that total by 48.
    1800/48 = 37.5 hours, which is a reasonable working week and more than France's working time directive.

    So, IMO if you work more than 1800 hours per year, you are doing so for Zero pay and you are being exploited. Your choice. I don't count hours but I know that's around the figure I do and decline to do any more.
    If you work more than 45 hours per week you are above what is reasonable IMO.
  18. chrisoakey

    chrisoakey Occasional commenter

    I should have added 45 hours per week in term time school days only or spread into the weekends and holidays if you choose to.
    Personally I am probably around 40 hours per week with odd half days in holidays.
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    One year I might be sad and keep track of time in time out and have it all added up for a year... plus extra for marking.

    Just to see.
  20. palmtree100

    palmtree100 Lead commenter

    Not in my opinion, but by implication when people who stay later are praised for the "long hours they put in"

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