1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Realism finally triumphs in England: "25-40% of pupils ineducable" OFFICIAL

Discussion in 'Education news' started by BigFrankEM, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I've already said, that boy is getting an education. And needs and desrves it - one of the greatest milestones, in my opinion, is "can go to the toilet alone" I've spent a long time working on this with some children! But of course it makes their whole adult life better, better for them, and for whoever is caring for them. I am not talking about children like this, who can learn.

    But then again, it does depend what he is learning. I've seen children of this level in lessons on GCSE level Shakespeare. Now that I do consider a waste of resources!
     
    Catgirl1964 and monicabilongame like this.
  2. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    well, of course it is a tiny minority! But that is what this thread is about, though, whether there are some children who should be considered uneducatable.

    I don't have any links, unless I can link my mark books and planners, yes these conditions are often terminal.

    In my career I have probably come across 20-25 children with terminal degenerative brain conditions, and others who's conditions are degenerative, but may still have a long life expectancy.

    In the long distant past, we would care for these children by making them happy, depending on what stage of degeneration they are at. If they can still walk and talk, they can tell us what they want, paint, play dough, sand pit, etc.

    For a child who can no longer move or communicate, either through degeneration, or because they were born like that, comfortable cushions, light displays, music, walks outside in a wheelchair, even if you get no response.

    These days we are expected to educated them.

    Or rather go through the stress and expense and pretense of educating them
     
  3. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I went for job interview last year with a class including a girl who was "working towards p1" at age 14, and in the feedback I was told I hadn't stretched her enough. I decided I didn't want to work there.
     
  4. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    Well yes, that is very silly.

    I have only had minimal contact with kids of that level, so obviously you know a lot more.

    I think it comes down to the general shift in education in general - that if a child does not achieve, the finger of blame seems now to be pointed directly at the teacher.

    A complete sea-change from 30 odd years ago when I was at school - if you flunked your test or exams, it was your fault and your fault alone. It's just a mentality of scapegoating that has overtaken education and driven thousands of teachers out.

    I had the same at a PRU about a year ago. A child was refusing to work and was telling me to F-off because I had "failed to engage him".

    The end result? - I'm sitting here typing at 8:50 am as I am back on supply and no work for me today.
     
    Catgirl1964 and dunnocks like this.
  5. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    sounds like it is their loss, not yours xx
     
  6. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    100% correct....

    I've posted this cartoon before, but it fits here too:

    [​IMG]
     
    drek, Catgirl1964, Alldone and 2 others like this.
  7. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    Thanks for the support. I took 2 days off in five years, got good results for the cohort, etc etc.

    Still bitter about it, and pathetically I still dream about it - but I'm in the same boat as probably tens of thousands of other teachers who were criticised one day and decided to make a stand, but financially lost out in the process.

    I refuse to work somewhere where basic values have been turned upside down - as the above cartoon suggests.
     
    Catgirl1964 and dunnocks like this.
  8. David Getling

    David Getling Senior commenter

    And are totally outraged if a teacher tells their prefect little angel that he is lazy.
     
  9. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    [​IMG]
     
  10. R13

    R13 New commenter

    Dunnocks states "I went for job interview last year with a class including a girl who was "working towards p1" at age 14, and in the feedback I was told I hadn't stretched her enough. I decided I didn't want to work there."

    Anyone who understands the P Levels knows that "Working Towards P1" Doesn't exist. P1 is the baseline level and when working with such children I continue to believe you are being disingenuous and offensive on purpose.

    If you were talking about a religious or ethnic group and saying they should not be entitled to education your words would be considered hateful and probably illegal - talking about disabled people in that way should not be given a platform by the TES
     
  11. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    Get over yourself (as Jim would say).
     
    drek likes this.
  12. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    what are you talking about? have you never met a child who cannot acheive p1? a child with no reflexes, such as blinking or swallowing, a child who is not able to recognise their mother?

    I don't understand your hand flapping and outrage, such children exist, why are you pretending they don't? Why is it offensive to say they exist?

    Personally, I would say you are the person being offensive, saying they don't exist.

    Are you seriously unable to see the difference? What has talking about different religious or ethnic groups have to do with it?

    You are trying to say there should be no discussion or debate, you are trying to close down discussion and debate by calling me names. How is that in any way a constructive contribution? You seem to have no understanding of the children I am talking about, and nothing at all to say in the discussion. Which is about whether some children are ineducable, and should we be spending money on their education, remember?

    i don't think anyone seriously believes all children can be educated, and I have given some extreme and clear cut examples. The question is really where to draw the line, currently I believe it is too far into the extreme area, other people may have different ideas and opinions, and might want to give their point of view.

    Your pearl clutching and shrieking in horror isn't a point of view, its just a bit of dramatic nonsense, and you posts don't have any actual content, so whats the point?
     
    Babycakes77 and drek like this.

Share This Page