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Realism finally triumphs in England: "25-40% of pupils ineducable" OFFICIAL

Discussion in 'Education news' started by BigFrankEM, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Occasional commenter

    After so many decades of attempting the impossible, newspaper reports in the quality press this morning concur that previous attempts to "educate" all pupils in the country, which has been official government policy at least since 1989 if not since 1944 or even before have been quietly dropped.

    "It was just a chimera, a mere illusion, that all children were capable of a meaningful education within our current economic and societal limitations" boasted a triumphant government spokesperson; though on strict conditions of annonymity.

    "As of next Monday," s/he confirmed "fully 25% of pupils will be taken off roll."

    "And if current practice in many areas is sound, this figure will rise to 40% or perhaps even higher by next summer."


    Though I must confess that in moments of despair at the chalk-face I never thought that I would live to see this day.

    lanokia and FrankWolley like this.
  2. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    Despite what the lovey dovey, bleeding heart liberals might tell you, the tender mercies of a good old-fashioned sergeant-major approach would easily cut this percentage down to single figures.
    woollani and agathamorse like this.
  3. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    A small local store by me has had problems with shoplifters (all ages and types). The shopkeeper has CCTV and called in the police to show them the evidence. They refused to act over an issue of "a couple of bottles of wine and a few sweets" (Their words). So the shopkeeper printed off some screenshots of the perps and posted them in the shop with the heading 'Beware Shoplifters'. This has prompted another visit from plod to tell him to take them down or be prosecuted!
  4. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    ... newspaper reports in the quality press ...
    I was with you until I saw telegraph.co.uk. The Telegraph is owned by the ultra Right Wing, tax evading, tax exiles, the Barclay brothers. It is widely known as "The Torygraph" as it consistently supports the Conservative Party line on everything.
    Most certainly NOT quality press.

    monicabilongame, JL48 and phlogiston like this.
  5. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Occasional commenter


    Let me re-phrase the OP then in the light of your very fair observations:

    "...reports in the "quality" press this morning..."
    JL48 likes this.
  6. bessiesmith

    bessiesmith Occasional commenter

    The link you have posted appears to relate to a report on police investigating fewer crimes, nothing I can see to do with students being ineducable.
    drvs and neddyfonk like this.
  7. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    I'm slightly puzzled. The link took me to a depressing statement about the police being unable to solve all reported crime. I suppose that it is possible that if this approach was extended to schools, then we might indeed see off-rolling.
    I don't see that this is necessarily going to happen. Mind you, I thought the Tories were the party of "law & order", but I guess austerity trumps solving crimes.
    Sad really.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  8. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Well I read it as the OP taking the story that the police now, apparently, have decided that a lot of crimes (& therefore criminals) are not worth bothering about so they can - bizarrely - offer value for money and keep their statistics up by ignoring those crimes/criminals...and has imagined the same approach applied to schools & education. :D
  9. gainly

    gainly Established commenter

    I don't think this would work unless there was a significant change in the law first. These kids may not learn anything at school, but they all know their "rights" and that if anyone so much as touches them they could be in serious trouble.
    Alice K and schoolsout4summer like this.
  10. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    Agreed! The UK is far too concerned about the rights of wrong-doers, while seeming to care nothing about the rights of honest, decent people. I imagine that any political party that could convince the electorate that they really would hammer criminals and wrong-doers (including delinquent kids) would win a landslide victory.
    Babycakes77 and border_walker like this.
  11. elder_cat

    elder_cat Established commenter

    Inevitable result, when the individual's own sense of entitlement is far more important than any obligation they may feel to the society within which they live.
    Catgirl1964 and Alice K like this.
  12. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    O levels were only ever meant for the top 15-20%. CSEs, far for being for the rest, were only meant for the next 40%. GCSEs - which mixed the two - have only ever really met the needs of the top 60% ish.
    That 25-40% are 'ineducable' has more to do with the system, and what we define as 'education', than reality. A solid vocational path for the 25-40% is badly needed, and should be available from KS4 onwards.
  13. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    ... and made up some quotes.
  14. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    Excellent point. There are a lot of kids who would be better off starting an apprenticeship at 14. And many of them would end up earning a lot more, with far more job satisfaction, than their teachers:D.
    Compassman, bevdex, JL48 and 2 others like this.
  15. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    Agreed. I recall several visits to Chicago schools. I would not recommend their academic curriculum but what they were light years ahead of us with was their vocational courses. Schools were resourced with machine shops what any small engineering firm over here would be happy to have, car workshops like medium sized garages some schools even had mocked up hospital wards, hairdressing salons and offices. Once everyone had done the 101 modules they could select 102, 103 etc in academic subjects they liked or they could go down a vocational route. Vocational education will only work in our schools if the schools are resourced or that kids can move into FE colleges at 14.
  16. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    In the late 60s my school had a small working farm, with cows and goats, that were milked by the pupils. There were also sheep and pigs, that went to the butcher, laying hens and meat rabbits. It also had fully equipped engineering and woodworking workshops and various laboratories, where experiments and investigations could be carried out on a regular basis by pupils working in small groups. Huge kitchens too, for Domestic Science -and all the girls learnt to cook proper meals (a few boys as well).
    There were other provisions too, that I am unable to recall.
    Today that school is much bigger and looks very impressive, but all that stuff that I really enjoyed at school has now gone.
    monicabilongame and Jamvic like this.
  17. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    Their parents know their rights too!
    Catgirl1964 and Alice K like this.
  18. border_walker

    border_walker Established commenter

    Or possibly they should be allowed to leave at 14 if they can find a job with an education content.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  19. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    I think that a German style vocational route with a mixture of education and work placements would be best. Leaving even vocational education to the free market is a recipe for disaster.
  20. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    some children are ineducable.

    I've had children with a negative mental age, ie, children who's cognitive ability does not meet that of a new born baby.

    I do sometimes wonder why we spend millions "educating" children who can't benefit in any way.

    The normal response to that question is to call me a nazi, rather than to answer the question.

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