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R.E and Citizenship as one.... Comments / Suggestions Please

Discussion in 'PSHE' started by jayjay14, May 8, 2007.

  1. Has anyone thought of teaching the two subjects as one?

    We are looking for alternative ideas to teach Citizenship and R.E and I hoped that there would be a Secondary School out there with some new initives. Any ideas/suggestions would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks for your help.

  2. Has anyone thought of teaching the two subjects as one?

    We are looking for alternative ideas to teach Citizenship and R.E and I hoped that there would be a Secondary School out there with some new initives. Any ideas/suggestions would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks for your help.

  3. zippy88

    zippy88 New commenter

    ive argued for them to be separate to enhance status. hard enough whole schole approach with some staff, so thought separate best. similar skills but also some very different. Active citizenship activities and days off timetable were good
  4. We are starting an new initiative this September, where R.E , Citizenship and PSHEE are taught by form tutors (4 times a week 30 minutes slot) The forms will also be linear (few pupils from each year group) The curriculum will be based on the new QCA concepts as well as skills, and any specific subject content (RE units, SRE, Drug educaion) will be covered through project days, lead by specialists/ organisatioons

    We are at the verv early stages of planning, but have QCA support as a Pilot School

    What are you planning?
  5. Resist, resist, resist!!!

    Good Citizenship teaching requires specialists (see every Ofsted report that has ever been written on the subject). You wouldn't have maths or science taught by form tutors, nor should Citizenship be.

    Trained Citizenship teachers have specialist knowledge and skills.

    Putting RE and Citizenship together devalues both. It may be convenient for 'management' (I use that term loosely 'cos most of the 'managers' I've met couldn't manage a p***up in a brewery) but it is bad for education.
  6. Oh what joy.....i get told the same thing 'how alike RE and PSHE is' how the 'same topics are taught'....
    There is NO getting away from the fact that Citizenship is NOT like any other subject taught in schools and that PSHE and Citizenship are 2 entirely different subjects.......
  7. Fight your corner to keep them as two distinct subjects. Both are important in their own right and (in my humble opinion) they should not be lumped together for the sake of convenience. Whilst I am completely aware of timetabling constraints, we should not give in to this! It would be as detrimental to do this as it would be to get form tutors to teach Citizenship and (God forbid!) RE!

  8. Stay away - once it's altogether as one subject, it's even easier to get rid of it altogether.
  9. With regards to form tutors teaching RE/Citizenship, in my last placement school (PGCE Citizenship) Years 7 and 8 were taught PSHCE in tutor time and for me it flagged up a few problems:

    Lack of knowledge/expertise/form tutors not actually knowing what PSHE and Citizenship are, lots of vague ideas..err drugs...err teamwork...err...

    Lack of status - both amongst pupils and staff.

    Reluctance from staff to teach it (filling gaps in timetable).

    The lessons became casual, pupils weren't able to shift focus away from the casual setting of their form group and room...to a lesson in it's own right (although this was a timetabled period during the day NOT form time).



  10. i would argue that the subjects need to remian distinct but can appreciate that many of the skills learnt are transferable accross the different topics.

  11. No no no no and again no!

    RS and Citizenship are 2 entirely different subjects and should be taught as so. In our school Citizenship is taught alongside RS ; Geography and History during KS3 (for example History look at the abolition of the slave trade before moving onto human rights, modern day slavery etc whilst RS looks at your place in the community and Geography study trade, charities etc)

    For GCSE both subjects are taught as short course. RS specialists teach the RS short course, whilst volunteers (and I do mean volunteers) teach Citizenship. This means that the teachers are enthusiastic about the subjects they teach. For your information I'm an RS specialist (HoD) who also teaches the short course citizenship GCSE. There are parrells during some part of the courses, and although we flag these up to students (i.e. do you remember doing this in RS?) we make sure that similar elements are not taught at the same time in order to diffuse any ideas that the subjects are the same.

    I echo the posts of bobdog et al that they should be kept seperate. I would fight very strongly against the way weaklemontea teaches as in my opinion it devalues both subjects.

    So jayjay14, in my opinion it's a very bad idea!


    Sorry for any spelling mistkaes - my eyes have gone very droopy after a sleepless night courtesy of baby and lots of AS essay marking!
  12. Skills are transferable across Maths and Physics, nobody is suggesting they be lumped together.

    Skills are transferable between English and History ... ditto.

  13. Can I just make something clear.......as I am a RE specialist, and union rep (teachers have the right not to teach R.E ), this is by no means my iniative, when i heard i nearly walked!!

    I have fought and fought against this, having members of SACRE and Advisors for the LEA in to back me up, but it is a SMT initiative and they will not budge and now they have QCA backing, they are running with it.

    I suppose by posting i wanted some reassurance that what SMT was proposing made sense- but clearly your with me on this one!!

  14. H Norris

    H Norris New commenter

    Hi Jayjay,

    This is a difficult one. In my school we have put RE, PSHE and Citizenship together in one faculty.We have 7 staff who are dedicated to the faculty. RE is often taught by the same teacher as PSHE & Citizenship because it helps us get to know the students as we have fewer classes to teach. However,the down side is that sometimes staff feel less confident with the RE, so they have had training. Having said this, we have 3 RE specialists and 4 staff who are committed to RE and PSHE & Citizenship. As the HOD of faculty I prefer working like this than having loads of tutors teaching PSHE and Citizenship who are not committed!
    Shot ourselves in the foot 2 weeks ago, however. We advertised for an RE specialist with a TLR for Citizenship and had very little interest- probably because of some of the kinds of things you guys have been saying!
    So, there you go!
  15. I personally think it is very dependent on the teachers involved. Since in education we are moving towards project based learning, it's not so bad to teach info and skills through projects but this does require some innovative thinking and teachers trying not to be so 'subject selfish' which is hard, espec in RS, Citizenship etc etc where we have to fight really hard for respect.

    We do some cool stuff in our school I'd be happy to mail you about...
  16. miztrouble,

    PLease could you mail me abou the things you do............. we are starting to do project base learning too and so it would be great to hear how its done!!


  17. weaklemontea ... sorry, wasn't having a dig at you - just the principle.

    2 things;

    1. Last attempt to argue with your SMT ... insist they read the major Ofsted report on Citizenship "Towards Consensus" published in Sept 2006 and available on the Ofsted website.

    2. If you then really have no choice; contact Liz Craft at QCA. She is their Citizenship adviser and is very good and may be able to offer some ideas.
  18. Many thanks for all replies. I think I can say that the two subjects should be kept seperate although of course there are areas where they intertwine.
    SuferBoy is your Scheme of Work written for both subjects, together? I'd love a copy.

    My main thought is that PHSE and Citizenship could be taught through a number of Whole School Days where everyone is off timetable. The main topics, drug, careers, sex ed etc could be taught via teams that dedicate themselves to one topic. So five topics are taught to a revloving year group. (This means that class teachers would have have to familarise themselves with a small number of topics e.g. careers insted of the whole lot). I would also continue with Citizenship being taught in all other subjects... but ask for proof via an assessment piece... and continue to teach RE and Citizenship as a seperate subject. Surely this would please OFSTED? Thoughts please.

    But I can't help but think, and hope that someone out there has Citizenship and RE to a fine T, where the kids love it. Please if you do I would love to know.

    miztrouble I would be grateful for any ideas you could pass on. jetblade12@aol.com

    And Mr Norris I have just taken on the same post Citizenship/RE Curriculum Leader.... what many do not realise is that the powers that be seem to be pushing the two subjects together and that we are just begining to see this in jobs that are advertised.. this is the start of change... and M.E this isn't being done to wipe both subjects out... in the 2008 - 2020 white papers Citizenship and R.E are the only two subjects from Humanites that remain compulsory.

    Best wishes


    OH MR Norris - jetblade12@aol.com could you please email. I would like to know how you teach this system at your school. Thanks

  19. H Norris

    H Norris New commenter

    Hi there,

    Mr Norris is actually Mrs Norris! and to confuse you further we share our home email which is john.norris5@ntlworld.com!!!!

    Anyway, my name is Helen an I'd be very happy to share with you what we do for Citizenship / PSHE/ RE.

    Best wishes, Jayjay,

  20. JayJay14 .... "the main topics, drugs careers and sex ed" ?????

    These are not the main (and arguably not at all) topics of Citizenship education. Citizenship is essentially about understanding how the legal, political and economic system functions at a local, national and international level, how decisions are made in these areas, and most importantly, how young people (as CITIZENS) can have a say in the decision making process.

    Drugs (for example) might then become a Citizenship issue; perhaps in debates about whether smoking should be banned in public places, or whether cannabis should be legalised, or what sentences might be appropriate for drug dealers etc ...

    This just illustrates why specialist teachers are so important to the subject - they actually understand what it is about, and since most of them will be graduates in subjects like politics, law and economics they will have the expertise to deliver it!

    We are producing, from the 10 or so specialist Citizenship PGCE courses that now exist, some 250+ new Citizenship teachers every year, and as the September 2006 Oftsted report makes clear, those schools that are employing them are the ones being rated 'very good' for Citizenship!

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