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Quick question about shortlisting!

Discussion in 'Jobseekers' started by naomi58, Feb 27, 2010.

  1. Rockchick2112

    Rockchick2112 New commenter

    I am glad this issue has been raised, as requiring potential recruits to be observed in their own schools is discriminatory practice. In the past few years, I have been a supply teacher, a teaching assistant and unemployed, so have been unable to apply for any posts which have stated in the advert that candidates will be observed teaching in their own schools (I have seen quite a lot of these over the past few years). Due to my lack of job, I am now doing yet another course of study!. I think it says a lot that when I was applying for teaching posts, I never seemed to get invited to interview when a school was a significant distance from my base in the West Midlands- one head even phoned me up wondering if the reason I had applied for a post in his school was that I might have family in the area (er... no, I just wanted a post in which I could finally start my NQT year!).
  2. There are many parts of the whole recruitment process in schools that leave a lot to be desired, and that would not get past the HR dept in many companies without the bosses being told that they can't do those things. I have never liked the way it is carried out in many schools, but this takes the biscuit. Well done, Theo, for spotting the ramifications of this practice.
    I find it hard to understand how the SLT can justify taking up the extra time it must take to visit (one assumes) more than one candidate, when they could confine the time taken for interviewing to a morning only in their school. Maybe they just like getting away from their school. I do wonder how much of it is due to the SLT not wanting the candidates to see the workings of their school/pupils.
    Ultimately, I suspect one of the issues might be - the same problem as in several areas of teaching - that we teachers do not have the courage to go against the practices of the HTs, and as a consequence we will follow the same course as has been going on, and just put up with it.
  3. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Let's try and keep this issue live, and continue sending me details of schools who are doing this.
  4. ela86

    ela86 New commenter

    bump- we need as many NQT's and student teachers to look into this and comment...
    How many of you are finding it hard to secure your first post!?
    How many of you doing supply knowing that you REALLY need to start induction soon, otherwise you'll be in serious trouble?
    How many students think, they don't mind relocating to where the jobs are!?
    All the above applies to me and that's why I feel so strongly about this!!
  5. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    They come to you? How anal.
  6. naomi58

    naomi58 New commenter

    I seem to have started a right old debate!
    Had the interview yesterday, got the job! Hooray! So pleased, but also gutted to be leaving my current school!
    Thanks Theo!
  7. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Now, now Naomi! You know this is not the way to give this news. Do it properly with a Dear Theo - I got the job! thread.
  8. Theo I think in my LA (Birmingham) it's standard practice to do a school
    visit. I always visit a school before applying for a job. For me It's important to get a feel of the school, Plus I would hate to get to interview and see the school for the first time and then decide it wasn't really for me. It would be a waste of everyone's time and effort.
    Also I have been observed teaching in my own school (they were impressed and I was offered an interview, but strangely I was offered the interview before they observed me, even though when I went on the visit with other candidates we were told that we would only be offered an interview based on the outcome of the observation). I agree this observation process isn't fair especially for NQTs or unemployed teachers, or even for teachers who are applying for a job in a different phase to the one they currently teach. Unfortunately these are hoops that we have to jump through in order to get a job.
    I recently went to visit a a school (and will probably be applying for a job there) and the head said she thought more of candidates who took the time to visit the school. She could actually put a face to a name on the application form and remembered the comments/questions the candidate had said during the visit. Now if (like in the group that was with me) there is someone who is more vocal than you, who manages to ask all the questions before you, that head is more likely to remember them and not you and this will give them the edge,

  9. Not in my experience Zulu - I got an interview in a school in Brum, I called previously for a bit more info (what year, why there was a vacancy type thing) and said I couldn't visit due to currently being in London, and then reminded them I'd called, but apologised again for not being able to visit in my application letter. They didn't mind a jot and apparently very nearly offered me the job (which for various reasons I didn't mind not getting).
    I don't get why it's a waste of your time if you go to interview and don't like it, as oposed to visiting previously and not liking it and it not being a waste of your time? It's just part of finding out if you like them at any point - with the tight application time it's hard to find the time to go visit with enough time left to do a cracking application if you do find you like it, especially if they only have set visiting times.
    So by your reckoning, if we had to give inside leg measurements, bake a cake for a chair of governers, write a poem for the head teacher's partner and take the Deputy Head's dog for a walk, this would also be ok, because, if you really want the job, you'll do anything? You seem to be missing the point - we shouldn't have to jump through these hoops, and when they are discriminitory it isn't hoops to jump through, it's just plain wrong.
    Personally I woulldn't want to work in a school that just goes for someone they can remember over the best teacher for the job. But that's just me.
  10. I've just posted a reply to Pixie but couldn't get the quotes to work. Can't faff about reposting it. Basically,having worked in Brum for over 15 years I have found most schools are happy (and to some extent expect) for you to visit. I am visiting a school next week and they are showing candidates around over two days.

    By visiting a school it gives me the opportunity to have a good look and get the feel of the school. Also I feel that there is more time to ask questions face to face than over the phone. Again this is my personal experience and opinion. In my career I have visited several schools first and then not applied.
    Pixie, I don't think I'm missing the point at all and no, I wouldn't do <u>anything </u>in order to secure a job. It is plain wrong and I agree the process isn't fair, but if employers want to observe you and you are desperate for a job, are you prepared to say no? Employers hold all the cards and I'm not sure how we can change things.
    The head of the school I visited recently was stating her opnion. I didn't really agree with her, but to some extent I can see what she is saying.
    At the end of the day we just need to make our application as strong as possible. Good luck to everyone applying for jobs.


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