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Quick question about shortlisting!

Discussion in 'Jobseekers' started by naomi58, Feb 27, 2010.

  1. naomi58

    naomi58 New commenter

    What's a normal amount of time between closing date and shortlisting?
    I'm stressing about if and when I might get a phonecall/ letter or whether it's already happened and I wasn't successful!
    The closing date was Wednesday. It's for a classteacher's job with a TLR, so wouldn't be going to full govs and the school adviser? Not sure!
    Help! x
     
  2. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    [​IMG]

    Nail biting time . . .
    Look at the post details. Does it say when the interviews are? Often at this time of year, at least this last week, with closing date Wednesday, they might have rung people immediately for interviews Friday (sorry . . .) so that the selected candidate could get his or her notice in by today, which is the last day to leave by Easter.
    But once that deadline is past, there's no pressure any more so it might be up to a week or even more.
    If the post was for Easter, and the deadline was last Wednesday, there's every chance that they had to rush through the interview and so you haven't been shortlisted. Bit disappointing for you.
    So, start working on improving your application, as there will be a little rush of ads over the new few weeks, to fill posts left vacant by those handing in notice by the end of February.
    If you're a regular here, you'll know what I'm going to say!
    Open the thread pinned to the top of the Forum, read all the clickables inside, especially How to Get Shortlisted and How Not to Get Shortlisted.
    I'm sorry if this last one hasn't come out well; best luck next time.
     
  3. naomi58

    naomi58 New commenter

    The post is for a September start, interviews are on 9th March, the advertisement didn't mention a shortlisting date, like some of them do. It also didn't state whether the Head would want to observe teaching in the interim.
    These are questions I would have liked to ask if my school would release me to make the visit, which was at an allocated time and not negotiable. I found it quite difficult to make my application really job specific when the only knowledge I had about the school was from my own research. I'm disappointed that I couldn't go, as it might have made a difference. Do you agree?
    I've seen another job, which is almost identical, so I'll read the thread you suggested and try again!
    Would it be inappropriate for me to try to get some constructive criticism from the school I've just applied to?
    Thanks for your help!
     
  4. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Interviews are 9th March - they may not send out the invitations until Tuesday or Wednesday.
    You say: It also didn't state whether the Head would want to observe teaching in the interim. I have never heard of that happening - the normal procedure is for teaching to be observed on the interview day.
    No, I am not particularly enamoured of school visits myself. The job application details, and the advice I give here (or your own common sense!) should enable you to produce a good application without a visit.
    You could try - after the interview date when you know definitely that you are not shortlisted - to see if you could get feedback, but don't count on it.
    And if they do, they will probably just say that other candidates complied more closely to the person specification/our requirements.
    Don't give up hope yet!
     
  5. naomi58

    naomi58 New commenter

    I heard today that I have been shortlisted, and the Head and Deputy are coming to observe me teach on Thursday! I was asked to visit the school and so went after school tonight (in my scruffy PE kit)!
    I'm very excited! Even if I don't get the job, it's nice to be shortlisted!
    Thank you for your advice so far - I think I might need some more over the coming week!
     
  6. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Good Gracious Me!
    How can they possibly visit every candidate in their own school! It limits it to local candidates only - would they travel from Lancashire to Essex?
    Where are you based?
    Oops, sorry, I should first have congratulated you, and told you to read the 2 Interview threads.
    But I am just SO flabbergasted!
    Unless, of course, this isn't England and Wales . . .
     
  7. Is this why I'm not getting shortlisted for the jobs I'm going for, as we want to relocate from away from London? [​IMG] ARGHGHGH - blooming annoying!

    But well done Naomi :) Good luck
     
  8. Katie777

    Katie777 New commenter

    It seems a bit unfair to be compared against other teachers who may be teaching very different classes too. Without any knowledge of your class, which may not reflect the more general picture of your school, how can they make accurate comparisons about your teaching?

    Try not to get too stressed about interview lessons, you will feel much better about them once you have a couple under your belt. They may never be fun but they will stop feeling like the worst thing in the world ever.
     
  9. Interesting to read your reaction to it Theo. I was interviewed before half term and got down to final two then was observed in my own class. The head travelled 30 miles to observe me. (I didnt get the job). Still waiting for feed back.
    The application stated that the observation would happen BEFORE the interview. When it came down to it, the distance became a factor and the head said they would observe AFTER the outcome of the interview. I have no idea whether the head observed anyone local before the interview. Equal opportunities? Hmmm!
    Really given me some food for thought here. If this is a new initiative involving recruiting teachers we need to nip it in the bud! I'm behind your campaign Theo!


     
  10. As I've already said on the Student Teachers forum, I agree that this is an equal opportunities issue. It would be really interesting to see how many teachers on here have had trouble getting through to the shortlist in schools outside easy travelling distance. Hopefully more people will read this and post here.
     
  11. ela86

    ela86 New commenter

    Wow I am shocked!
    I was trying to relocate before summer to London from south west, i sent lots of applications to schools i had researched and knew i would like to work in, tailored EACH application form/ letter/ person spec etc and had them looked at by a head teacher etc yet i was only offered one interview, perhaps since i wasn't within easy travelling distance to any of these schools i was immediately discarded? I guess i will never know, but we should all protest about this!
     
  12. I am shocked by this. As a GTP I am not sure I would want to be observed in my school and certain not with our literacy class who have some real behaviour issues. How can these comparisons be fair? All schools are different and the interviewers won't know which schools are tougher or easier or whether a particular class is harder work. At least in their own school they can ensure a mix of pupils that give all candidates a fair crack at the whip or get all candidates to teach the same/similar class/classes to make direct comparisons.
     
  13. I have only noticed this once so far, but it struck me as very unfair at the time - the advert said they could observe applicants teaching at their own school/placement or at their school the job was at. How can that possibly be fair? I would be so much less nervous teaching children I already knew - knowing their names, ability, experience etc makes a huge difference, especially to a student teacher. And yet if I live too far away from the school I would have to travel there and teach unknown children! Not a level playing field at all.
     
  14. I dont really know how this would work really, surely its easier for all concerned to just get the candidates to come to the school where the job is?! My friend is doing a PGCE at another university, and wants to relocate to another area of the country. He applied for a job in Essex (we live in Yorkshire), he got an interview, and got the job, and none of this nonsense about coming to see him in his school!
    As a PGCE student myself, I wouldn't feel happy being observed on my placement, as these are not my students either! I would prefer everyone to have an equal chance with students from the school that you are applying to, as these are the students that matter surely? They're the ones you will interact with on a daily basis!
    I support your campaign, as I don't think its a fair practice at all. When you apply for jobs in other sectors, they don't come and watch you working in your current job, as this isn't particularly professional, particularly if you are unhappy in your job and are trying to move away. Therefore it can't help if people who are already teachers are trying to move schools for their own personal reasons, and have a head from another school suddenly turn up to observe! I would not want this to happen to me!!!
     
  15. I am shocked as well... and in a way i don't see the point of them travelling to observe an applicant. I have never been asked to be observed during my placements or during my current employment by any school I had applied to. And I never really struggled to get interviews.. the job in the end yeah, but the interview not that much!
    I have always seen lessons on interviews as a time to sho off so to say, how quickly you can build a positive relationships with kids who do not know you, teaching skills of course and ability to adapt and react to unfamiliar and unexpected situation.
    If I am to be observed in my school for an interview in another school... the person observing me will have no real idea of their levels, usual behaviour... and I think that this is usually judged in lesson inteviews: how do the same kids react and work with somebody else.

    I recently had a call from a school before confirming an invitation for an interview as they wanted to make sure, among other things, that I was able and willing to relocate, which is normal and I liked that a lot as this school proved that they put a lot of care in the recruitment.

    PGCEs and NQTs are nearly forced to relocate given the shortage of jobs in certain areas/subjects!! I would certainly not like to be observed in my school for a job in another. this is unfair, and doesn't make sense to me... Is this becomming common practice???
     
  16. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    I think that the general feeling is that this is very much anti-equal-opps. Or to put it more bluntly: this is unfair as there isn't a level playing field.
    POINT A: This isn't a level playing field because:
    One candidate, in own school, is teaching in circumstances where:
    • S/he knows the children's names
    • S/he knows the children's personalities
    • S/he knows the children's levels, difficulties
    • S/he knows the work done previously that can be built upon
    • S/he can actually do a class the day before (the hour before?) setting the scene for the observed class
    • S/he need not panic if there is a hitch as own materials, facilities all to hand
    • S/he may have a known TA in the classroom
    • S/he can feel confident because of all the above
    However, another candidate, perhaps a PGCE or BEd Student, or an unemployed or supply teacher, is teaching in an unknown school, where children are unknown, facilities unknown, and nervous anyway.
    POINT B: Conversely, this isn't a level playing field because:
    One candidate, in own school, is teaching in circumstances where:
    • The observers do not have the background knowledge of the children to judge learning and progress
    • The observers do not have access to the RaiseonLine or other value-added and achievement data for the children
    • The observers do not have familiarity with the children's behaviour issues with other teachers
    • The observers (are they all Ofsted-trained and experienced?) cannot assess within the context of that school
    However, another candidate is teaching within the observers' own school where the observers know the school, its context, its pupils.
    POINT C: This may not be a level playing field if:
    A school is so set on observing in applicants' own schools that those from outside the travelling distance are discareded immediately on the grounds og distance.
    POINT D: This may also not be a level playing field if:
    A school insists on applicants making a school visit before application, and says it will not consider applicants who do not. Even if:
    • Your current Head won't allow time off for school visits
    • You are working on supply, so lose a day's teaching money if you go on a visit
    • You live at the other end of the country, so it is not practical to visit
    • You live at the other end of the country, so it is too expensive to visit
    I am not happy about schools insisting on school visits, never have been. It's just an extra interview opportunity for the school - why can't shortlisted candidates be given a school visit at the beginning of the interview day?
    But I am even less happy about schools who suggest observing candidates in their own schools.
    It is not a level playing field.
    It is not fair.
    I think that sums up nicely my point of view here.
     
  17. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    I would always recommend stating clearly in your application letter/statement that you are wishing to relocate to that part of the country, if you are applying elsewhere.
    Best wishes
     
  18. Can I throw another situation into the mix? Is it normal for applicants to be shortlisted and advised before the job has closed? Or, for the interviews to be scheduled the day after it closes?
     
  19. Agree withyour post totally TheoGriff. I think it is going to be tough enough to find a job for September without having to worry about visiting all these schools. I have mentioned this on my other thread all the heads of people I am GTP with seem to be saying they will not shortlist a candidate who cannot be bothered to come and look around their school. I have been told my head has to allow me time to look round and my school are accomodating about this, but considering these week 4 potential vacancies have come up I cannot see me being happy about 4 different visits. Also saying they are happy and being happy are too different things and if the staffing is so tight there may not be an opportunity to visit, especially if the visiting school specifies a certain day/time.
     
  20. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    A number of Tessers have PM'ed me with names of schools or Local Authorities who do Own School Observations. Some have even sent me the link to the webpage where they say so.
    Let me have any more that you find, folks.
     

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