1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Question about G&T students

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by Findlotte, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. Findlotte

    Findlotte Established commenter

    A few questions about G&T.

    I've found that each department in my school has devised criteria for each subject for G&T standards and that each department will nominate students for G&T. It's not solely based on assessment results or the top 10% of students etc.
    This means that a student can be G&T in English, but low-attaining in Maths.
    It also means that when looking on SIMS, students will show as G&T on every register (when you right-click and select G&T) unless you physically sift through into SEN and find what they're G&T in (which I did by chance and found myself here).

    1. Is this the same in all schools?
    2. If a student shows as G&T in English but isn't G&T in my subject - do I treat them as G&T (additional tasks etc) or a like 'normal' student?
  2. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    At one point in the past my old school did this, it wasn't terribly useful and sometimes seemed a bit random. Some G&T students were anything but!

    More seriously, I incline to the view that sometimes these labels can be damaging.
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  3. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    1. We don't have it on sims or any such program, but yes of course children can be gifted/talented in just one area or in several. I love that your school has personalised the criteria to their department. We use a variety of identifying factors and simply have a list of names and subjects. It is important to be clear what areas a child shows talent and to revisit frequently.

    2. No, unless the subject is relevant. So a child who is gifted in English ought to be producing some darn good history essays, but one gifted in trampolining will not need anything more in their geography lesson.
  4. Findlotte

    Findlotte Established commenter

    It's amazing what you find when you're asked to do a project on something.

    Unfortunately, most teachers in the school aren't aware of this criteria and feel they aren't able to provider differentiated lessons to provide for G&T learners.
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  5. freckle06

    freckle06 Lead commenter

    We do something similar. I only worry about G&T in my subject, but high attainers are also picked out so they won't slip through the net. I agree G&T in trampolining isn't much use when it comes to reading a map.

    We also have to organise a G&T trip for our nominated children, I linked mine with history last year, but might see if science are interested this year as they went to the natural history museum, which is Geography heaven!
  6. wordsworth

    wordsworth Senior commenter

    I suppose the theory is good (in the sense that the more able should not be ignored - but who would ignore them anyway?), but whether or not a kid is really G+T can vary so much from school to school as to , frankly, render it a useless distinction. Plus there used to be all this discussion years ago about what it means to be 'Gifted' and then how this differs from being 'Talented'.

    I think that we all know how to recognise and challenge a more able kid, without having this term thrust upon us (or them). And lucky you, freckle, if there's actually some kind of budget for a trip for G+T kids.
  7. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I'm sure they can differentiate for the most able in their classes!
  8. scienceteachasghost

    scienceteachasghost Lead commenter

    If a child is G+T in Art it will probably have little bearing on whether they are G+T in Maths unless they are Leonardo da Vinci.
  9. wordsworth

    wordsworth Senior commenter

    And I bet that he wasn't on any list either:)
    sabrinakat likes this.
  10. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    G&T has never made any sense to me. If gifted are the top 10% - this will vary from year to year and school to school, so a vague measure. Talented is only useful to that talent, so pointless to anything else.
    I think it was possibly a good idea that really didn't work. It is far better that everyone is appreciated and pushed to achieve their best.
    wordsworth likes this.
  11. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I think it is similar to those on the SEND register, not everything is relevant in every lesson, But let's just make sure we take account of the different abilities when planning lessons. And the most able need that thought just as much as the least able.
    secretsiren and sabrinakat like this.
  12. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    We don't actualy have any G + T students because we don't have a proper register.

    Other than a girl in my Year 10 who is world champion at Tae Kwon Do in her age group (and she's so quiet in lessons too)
  13. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I hated having to single students out like this. Yes, we should plan for all abilities, but having a rigid system with some identified as G&T and some not doesn't make sense to me. In my subject (Maths) I always had something up my sleeve for those finding the work relatively easy, but who got it depended on how they were doing that day, not on whether or not they appeared on a list. I appreciate that it may be different in other subjects.
    bombaysapphire and -myrtille- like this.
  14. neddyfonk

    neddyfonk Lead commenter

    I quite like a Gin & Tonic.
  15. modgepodge

    modgepodge Established commenter

    We were told recently we should be offering 'extra' to G&T students within lessons. PPG children also need extra. Oh, and SEN (the group who, in my opinion, actually DO need extra). In year 6, children who are 'borderline' also need extra. This amounts to over half my class, all of whom need extra attention in lessons and should be planned for in more detail.

    Lord help you if you're an average rich kid, you don't deserve any of my time.
    sabrinakat and (deleted member) like this.
  16. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    I once had a bottom set where all but three of the kids had IEPs. The IEPs were virtually identical apart from the exact reading and spelling ages. I did wonder whether I should differentiate in some way for the three who could read.
    sabrinakat likes this.
  17. -myrtille-

    -myrtille- Occasional commenter

    Ours has just shifted to be done like this. Each subject area nominated pupils.

    I'm not sure what they show up as on SIMS, but we have all been emailed a spreadsheet showing who has been identified as G+T in each area. So I would only record a kid as being G+T if they are down as G+T in my subject, not if they're G+T in something else (though I look out of curiosity).

    Personally I think this is much better as I'm having to explain the underachievement of an allegedly G+T pupil (usually a bright but lazy boy) who is very mathematically minded and good at science and computing, but has no interest in or aptitude for French. In exam results analysis I have been totally honest and said stuff like "target grade does not reflect their ability in this subject" or "their gifts and talents lie elsewhere").

    To be honest though, I wouldn't say I've ever treated the G+T pupils any differently. I have extension tasks for the more able, whether they are G+T or not. Often pupils find some concepts really easy and others really hard, so they might be doing an extension task one day and struggling through the core work with support another day. And the most incredible pupil I have taught (on track for an A* since Y9, I had to start teaching her bits of A-Level content...) wasn't officially G+T and only has a target grade of B because she didn't do that well in her SATS.
  18. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    The problem we've found is that the more students you identify as G and T, the more work you make for yourself and everybody else, not meaningful work as in differentiation, for example, but all the evidence you have to put together about what you have done for G and T students, and all the extra copying out registers, and everything like that.

    And the G and T label is virtually impossible to get rid of, in our records every child that had ever had that label was identified, so children joining our mainstream sixth form from a school for MLD, were still labelled G and T.

    Children identified as good at dressing up aged 6, were still labelled G and T aged 14, in their French lesson.....

    I had one colleague who consistently labelled every single child on his register G and T, saying he could get more funding and sponsorship for extra curricular activities, like that, and get them on the official national register which gave them access to more events and resources.

    so the whole thing had no meaning at all really, just another layer of overwork foisted onto exhausted teachers

    incidentally, they are not called G and T round here, they are called "Maggots"
  19. Jolly_Roger1

    Jolly_Roger1 Star commenter

    G&T tends to get used as a relative label. Such students might have stood out among their peers in class but not be exceptional.
  20. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    He was wrong, there is no extra funding.

Share This Page