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Qualified Teacher Learning and Skills (QTLS)

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by mortymoo, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. I am very confused by the new standards and who they apply to. I am FE trained, working in a secondary school. I am looking to get QTS but could i apply for QTLS instead, and would this be valid in a secondary school.

    I have been teaching part-time for 3 years, 2 of which were my PGCE years. (I did it part-time in the evenings.)

    Can anyone clarify this, the site isn't that helpful.
  2. I am very confused by the new standards and who they apply to. I am FE trained, working in a secondary school. I am looking to get QTS but could i apply for QTLS instead, and would this be valid in a secondary school.

    I have been teaching part-time for 3 years, 2 of which were my PGCE years. (I did it part-time in the evenings.)

    Can anyone clarify this, the site isn't that helpful.
  3. QTS for schools brings QTLS for FE if you land an FE job you'd apply for QTLS.
    QTLS for FE doesn't bring QTS.
    Do the QTS and you're laughing.
    QTLS rolls out from September 2007 but it'll be a year or so before it really impacts.
  4. I was talking to a colleague at university this morning about this.

    He said something very interesting but it is theoretical.

    Under the APL system it could THEORETICALLY be possibe for a DRB to award QTS directly from QTLS under the current assessment only system without any evidence folder or observations of teaching etc.

    He says it should ( THEORETICALLY) work like the old C&G 7307 stage 2 certificate was APL'd to cert ed for transfer to full cert ed status. This was just a piece of paper that was issued for the university to pass students into the second year of the cert ed course many moons back

    Of course this is THEORETICAL and relies on two things

    a) being able to establish that QTLS and QTS are equivalent qualifications ( the LSC have already made the claim that they are and the fact that QTS = QTLS suggests a possible two way street)

    b) having a DRB who is willing, for a sum of money to do the paperwork and award QTS standing ( ie write to the DfES and GTC stating QTS is awarded
    (which is what they do on assessment only or a standard GTP anyway).

    I stress this is THEORETICAL.
    It would take a brave / stupid and tenacious person to take a DRB who does assessment only and argue the case that the award of the one status implies by definition that all the criteria for the second are met and that status of the second should be awarded from the existence of the first .

    Does that make sense?

    Anyway, dont hold your breath. QTLS is a waste of time for those of us working in schools rather than the FE ( incorporated FE college) system which is the only place this will matter in 2007 anyway.
  5. Thanks for that. I thought that would be the case.

    I find it irritating and insulting that my PGCE does not count in Secondary. It is a postgraduate certificate in education and took a lot of hard work to pass.

    It is a ridiculous that there is a two tiered qualification system for the same profession. I can teach, and I can teach very well. I can teach a lot better than some people I work with.

  6. It is irritating and insulting - blame the IfL who will only support their vested interests and are not interested in anyone else ( arguement being that people such as yourself - and me if I didnt have QTs, are irrelevent because we form a small and insignifcant proportion of the teaching in the sector)
  7. PS Morty, see my other post from last might in SS. It gives the general run down on the state of affairs.
  8. thanks
  9. Of course before anyone gets on the high horse it should be made very clear that those of us who work in secondary are in fact working in post sixteen education in secondary ( ie sixth forms).

    QTLS is mickey mouse because only QTS is recognsied in the post 16 sector in schools and in FE but QTLS has no currancy ( will have no currancy ) at all in the post 16 sector in state schools even though the holders of the PGCE and the QTLS are trained to teach post 14.

    What a load of rubbish QTLS is.

    More than that the IfL hasnt delivered on the promise made back in 2001 - FE teachers would regain their standing and their qualifications would be recognised in ALL sectors of the post 16 system.
  10. Give the IfL a chance. Although it has existed in name for a couple of years, it is only now (withinthe last couple of weeks) that it is being given the formal responsibilities of a professional association with an elected Council.
  11. Omg. Now I'm worried after reading this thread...I have an interview to do PGCE PCET on Friday! Am I completely wasting my time? Have I ANY chance of finding employment upon qualifying?
  12. You will get work, but if you come out of the FE sector you will have to train again to gain QTS. You can work in secondary schools as an unqualified teacher which does make you desirable as you will be cheaper.
  13. Magbeth - in my opinion as someone who is completing a PGCE PCET at the moment, I would say it depends on your subject and your geographical area. In many towns there is only one college so the chance, say of an A level Art position comoing up are slim!! Accepted wisdom is that you need to get your foot in the door with sesional teaching - so think if you are really prepared for this - when you factor in preparation and marking the hourly rate is quite poor. HAving said that someone from my course already has a FT position, but she had to move area to take it up. She's also v good!
  14. MDF


    Barrie, as before on this subject, is talking without full possession of the facts and should not be taken in any authoritative way.

    QTLS is not a qualification, it is the conferral of professional status.

    It impacts on the entire LSC funded sector, not just FE.

    No-one forms a small or insignificant part of the sector.

    The IfL is not responsible for the regulations.

    QTLS is recognised in all LSC funded post-compulsory provision.

    There is no requirement in any legislation or regulation to hold QTS in sixth form provision.

    But never let the facts get in the way of axe grinding.

    I am more than happy to talk electronically or via the telephone to any colleague trying to come to terms with the professionalisation agenda.
  15. So why dont you give a direct answer to Morty's question?

    She has asked ( quite properly given the situation for FE teachers working in sixth forms in schools as she does)

    If she has QTLS will this over ride her need to obtain QTS ( QTS is at presnt required for all tteachers in sixth form or in secondary school ) in order to be recognised as a qualifed teacher ( and paid and contracted accoringly)

    Straight answer.

    Instead of going at me ( and my facts are straight. I got them from the DfES ) you should recognise that Pete Keefe concurs with my view.

    QTS = QTLS but not the other way round, ergo, FE teachers with QTLS will not be recognised as qualified when working in sixth forms in state secondary schools.

    Morty is asking. She needs to know. This poor girl is currenly paid as an unqualified teacher because she has a PGCE for FE ( QTLS can and will ve conferred on her PGCE and qualifications of that there is no doubt).

    This poor girl is about to do two years more teacher training and hoop jumping for QTS to get recognsied to teach.

    She wants to know - as do we all - when she gets QTLS will she be recognised and paid as a qualified teacher in a sixth form in a state comprehensive school. YES or NO. Straight answer.

    Stop peeing around the bush and give an answer.
  16. "There is no requirement in any legislation or regulation to hold QTS in sixth form provision."

    You are incorrect. Check your facts.
    As legislation currently stands you cannot work in a state school sixth form as a qualified teacher unless you have QTS.

  17. Thank you ***********, for two things, putting my case so clearly and calling me a girl. It's been a while since someone referred to me that way.

    I am meeting with my school tomorrow, they are pushing for the full GTP. I don't think I will be able to resolve this issue quickly enough to save me having to jump through those hoops.
  18. MDF


    There is no requirement for teachers in sixth form provision to hold QTS status, all sixth form provision is funded by LSCs, not LEAs. Individual employers may make specific requirements, the majority of sixth form colleges do not - unless you disagree with the sixth form college Principals I have been in discussion with this week. Sixth form provision is not maintained by local education authorities (I refer you to section 134 of the 2002 Education Act).

    No FE teachers work in sixth form colleges, sixth form provision is dealt with separately within the 2002 Education Act. Section 72 of the Act applies. No 'FE Teachers' work in schools - you either work in FE or you don't.

    QTS does not equal QTLS, end of - and you will be unable to link to any source stating otherwise.

    I cannot comment on any requirements the GTC makes for currently qualified teachers to be considered qualified to teach in schools, this is a matter for GTC(E). If you believe the GTC to require 'hoop jumping', I suggest this is a matter for the GTC, not the IfL.

    What state schools choose to pay their staff is a matter for the individual employer.

  19. MDF


    In reply to the original poster, post-September 2007 we operate in a very different landscape in terms of the transferabilty of professional status across sectors. I am not sure that the 2007 regulations allow seamless transition from school to FE as has been suggested.

    QTLS relates to a different model of professionalism, appropriate to those working in teaching and learning outside of the <16 national curriculum. Should you want to avail yourself of current information, there are a series of regional events under way http://www.sectortraining.com/i7042n_course.htm.
  20. MDF says:
    "QTS does not equal QTLS, end of - and you will be unable to link to any source stating otherwise."

    This is from the LSC website:

    "Qualified Teacher Learning and Skills (QTLS)
    Qualified Teacher Learning and Skills (QTLS) is a new award for teachers in the learning and skills sector.

    It covers both taught and practical skills, and is the equivalent of Qualified Teacher Status (QTS) in schools.

    QTLS will be introduced in full from September 2007."

    Source: http://www.successforall.gov.uk/index.cfm?pg=317

    From the LSC website :

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