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QTS QTLS NQT? When Am I actually qualified to teach in a school?

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by julie-woolie, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. Well said!
  2. And rightly so.
    But the problem is that this parity of pay between QTLS/QTS has been conflated to also mean that QTLS is an equally good qualification for school teachers.
    It just isn't.
    And despite Psylecs protestations, she is 'special', because she teaches a subject in a school for which there is no (easy) training route within school teaching, and she does not therefore need to compete against other pyschology teachers with QTS for posts.
    And I dare say the colleagues Teachered refers to that he knows have used QTLS to move from FE to schools are in a similar position, (feel free to correct me).
    However I think the point Ska was trying to make, and I agree with, is that if you want to become a school teacher then it is best to train to become one rather than to bleat about the failure of schools to recognise QTS/QTLS parity. This is the advice I would certainly give to any student teacher.
    And this is not to 'deprecate' FE teacher training at all, because it is different, and intended for a different purpose.
  3. Guest

    Yes it's right that FE teachers are paid the same as school teachers. School teachers no longer have to apply for QTLS. It was scrapped in September last year. I'm not sure if you are saying QTLS isn't as good as QTS or something else? If you don't think so, why not?

  4. And rightly so.

    But the problem is that this parity of pay between QTLS/QTS has been conflated to also mean that QTLS is an equally good qualification for school teachers.

    It just isn't.

    I have never said that it is. All I'm saying is that there are still people on tes saying that FE teachers still can't teach their specialist courses to their specialist age groups in a school, which is incorrect, as the law now recognises that we have our own equivalent standards which would be applicable to school posts which largely/mainly consist of post 16 teaching.

    And despite Psylecs protestations, she is 'special', because she teaches a subject in a school for which there is no (easy) training route within school teaching, and she does not therefore need to compete against other pyschology teachers with QTS for posts.

    Correction, if you read my post carefully, you will have noticed that it said that I am not a unique case of a fully qualified FE teacher who is now teaching their subject in a school with my qualifications now being legally recognised. This was to counter sk8r's argument that not many FE teachers teach in schools. By the way, it's not just Psychology that my FE colleagues working in schools teach. Many of them are English, Maths and Science Teachers, to name but a few subjects.

    .and she does not therefore need to compete against other pyschology teachers with QTS for posts.

    I totally disagree here! Such an assertion as just as flawed as the one still posited on tes that A-level teachers (or those who teach other level 3 post 16 courses offered in schools) with FE teacher qualifications and experience should be treated as less competent as secondary school teachers applying to do the same thing. The only difference is what the building is called where the course is run. Of course, I do not apply for posts which include a lot of lower school teaching because I recognise that my experience and qualifications are not applicable in this instance, so I would need to retrain as a secondary teacher first. Moreover, the number of secondary trained psychology teachers is growing, so I have competed against many school trained teachers for Psychology posts both in schools and colleges. Furthermore, no-one says things like this to secondary school teachers who decide to teach in colleges (they also have different standards and are trained for a different age group). Why should we be treated any differently if we are applying for a post that we are also qualified and experienced enough to teach?

    In fact, I would go so far as to say that the only people who have a problem with post 16 trained teachers teaching in schools are the people who use the tes forums. That said, I am not going to argue further with anyone on here, as the whole argument over QTS vs QTLS appears to be ongoing, pointless and tautological! We also appear to have completely wandered off the original topic of this thread. Sorry OP!

    Anyway, I will not be posting on this thread again, so I wish both the op and everyone else on here well and hope that people in a similar situation to me have found at least some parts of this thread helpful!
  5. If you don't update your CPD to maintain QTLS do you eventually lose your status?
  6. saluki

    saluki Lead commenter

    I have a brilliant idea. Why not introduce a conversion course which will enable FE lecturers PGCE PCET people to obtain QTS. A proper course not QTLS.
  7. When all schools are 'free' or have academy status it becomes a non-issue, as they at liberty to employ whoever they like, regardless of teaching qualification. A fantastic result for teaching unions, who have defended a rigid single route into scholl teaching to the death and death is exactly what they now have, the death of the school teaching 'profession' (if ever it existed).
  8. There is one already, it's called schoolsdirect. I believe that you can still do the AOB course at the University of Gloucestershire as well, but not at the moment due to lack of places ;-)

  9. Agreed. To top it off, the Government in its 'wisdom' then decided to overhaul the FE teaching regulations after changing the school law to allow FE teacher qualifications to be recognised in schools. Result, no-one knows their behinds from their arms with regard to who can do what and where! Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me at all if future Governments were to follow Oliver Cromwell's example with the royal family in the 17th Century and ban the title of teacher altogether and rename us all cover supervisors instead (in the same way that Cromwell appointed himself as king with the title of Lord Protector) with peformance related pay at knockdown prices!

    Needless to say, I feel extremely sorry for the current generation of 11-18 year olds and despair over what kind of education they will get! The only people who will benefit from their 'so-called education' is the fatcats making a profit out of it in the business providers across the country (sorry, schools, colleges, academies, University Technical Colleges and supply agencies) and at Westminster!
  10. Hi, can I just ask where you trained please
  11. Just read the IfL website after an absence of a few years and WOW! you now have to PAY to do the Professional Formation to get QTLS.....£485!!!! It used to be free!! Another penalty!
  12. curlyclaire35

    curlyclaire35 New commenter


    I have PGCE in Post-Compulsory Sector and am thinking of moving into Primary Education, and have been considering getting QTLS so that I can eventually get a teaching post in that sector. Reading through this thread it seems that the QTLS will not be that valuable or regarded as highly as QTS, especially within the Primary sector. Is there anyone here who has gained QTLS and moved from FE to Primary, if so would love to hear your story.

    Thank you.
  13. ninanani

    ninanani Occasional commenter

    Hello, I have just moved secondary not primary but it took me 3 years to be employed as a qualified teacher in a secondary school. even the question: do you have QTS makes me sick as I studied as long as QTS holders and am a very good teacher. If I have been an Grade 1 teacher in the 6th form why I can't be a teacher in a secondary - can't get it BUT the answer is you can and carry on applying and like I said eventually you will get one.
  14. ninanani

    ninanani Occasional commenter

    Just a quick question: Why QTS holders think that they are better than QTLS?
  15. Historical reasons mainly. Based on professional formation and the employment laws of yesteryear.

    Some of the reasons were/are quite reasonable, others are just ludicrous.

    If you have a read round some of the older posts you will a) fall asleep very easily, b) realise that neither side actually knows what the other has been told.... so arguments get very silly.

    It is one of the most repeated and daft arguments here, enjoy [​IMG]
  16. curlyclaire35

    curlyclaire35 New commenter

    thanks irjinao,

    I have found it very easy to find work in secondary schools, and indeed have been employed as an agency teacher (and being paid on a qualified teacher rate) between 2007 and 2011 with no questions about not having QTS. I suspect that it would be a lot more difficult for me to get a teaching job in Primary schools because it is a much bigger jump in terms of age group and the fact that I would need knowledge of several subjects. I fear I may have to do an Initial Teacher Training course, which makes my PGCE and the last 10 years feel like a complete waste of time!
  17. Pobble - I'm new to FE; I'm currently a few months into my PGCE (14-19), and I can honestly say I am so confused about where my career is headed. My PGCE provider doesn't help either!
    CalypsoDalma likes this.
  18. Stevie, as long as you are sure you don't want to work in a school you will be fine.

    The long and convoluted discussions come about when someone completes a FE certification and then demands to be allowed to teach in a school. That is down to poor planning, hope over experience and a lack of advice at the beginning of a course.

    But, in my opinion, if you start a PGCE you really should be sure that it leads to the age group / sector you want to teach. You wouldn't train to be a mechanic if you wanted to be a dentist... and the two sectors do seem to be determined to remain that different, despite the mutterings about QTS / QTLS equivalence.
  19. Hello can anyone help with this I qualified in 2009 with a PGCE (Professional Graduate Certificate in Education) in PCET. I'm trying to apply for a job in UAE but they are asking for teaching licence or certificate. So I have the PGCE certificate but I spoke to the lady today and she said I would need QTS to teach. My question is if I apply for QTS do I get anything to say I have QTS or is it just a status something you know you have without a so called document piece. If anyone could help me this. I would appreciate it. Kind regards Sarah
  20. Nope! They are asking for something you have not got. Something that requires you to undertake different training.

    You may be able to convince them that you are suitable if you send them all of the info re your PGCE, but they may get lots of applicants with exactly the certification they are asking for.

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