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QTS -its just ridiculous

Discussion in 'Overseas trained teachers' started by artbot, Jul 1, 2006.

  1. janemk

    janemk New commenter

    As I said in my last post, agencies may well withold this information as they are desperate to recruit you, but anyone with any sense would do their own research into the qualifications recognition system of the country they were moving to to work in. If you didn't, sorry, but that's your fault. Our government education websites tell you exactly what you need to do or who you need to ask for info if you are OTT and want to work here. There's no excuse for not knowing if you have internet access.
     
  2. Re Post 47:

    If you were qualified fully in your own country, and did not start here on the GTP, then upon obtaining your QTS, you should be placed on the pay point nearest the one you were on for your salary as an unqualified teacher. If you are in between pay points, then you should be placed on the higher of the two. That was stated in the contract for unqualified teachers.

    Check with your union if you are being offered only NQT rates. Certainly if you taught UQ for two years, you are not a NQT!
     
  3. Hello artbot et al...

    I'm a fellow Australian and I posted this on another forum:

    "Apologies if my tone sounds bitter but this is a bit of a sore point for me, as I am actually more qualified than my HOD,and have been outperforming my entire Department at KS3 for the 4 years I have been teaching in England. I came here as a qualified international teacher in a shortage subject - when I arrrived I had been teaching secondary students full time in my home country of Australia for 7 years.......I had excellent references and proven, significant success with difficult groups in underprivileged areas......I still had to obtain QTS!"

    I too came here initally via an Agency and there was no mention of QTS - in fact, they told me the job I had been given was permanent:it was, in fact, a one term contract. After my term with the school they paid a fee to release me from my agency - until I gained QTS I was being paid instructor rates ie £8000 per year less than my agency pay equated to. As my Head is such a jobsworth, I then had to apply for the permanent vacancy, despite already being in post - my permanency was contingent upon my obtaining QTS within that academic year.

    Further, the Home Office can only issue a limited visa if you do not have QTS - with QTS the work visa is 5 years, without it is 3.

    I'm from Queensland, and OTT have to undergo a probationary period and and English proficiency test, irrespective of their qualifucations and experience. Under the QLD system, even I would have to undergo another probationary period if I went back - it is a requirement if you are absent from the State system for two or more years. All teachers are teachers of literacy and numeracy, and the use of ICT is an expectation now - it seems reasonable to assume that we should have a basic level of proficiency in these key skills.

    You have to make a decision about exactly how great your desire is to remain in this country. Like me, you may not agree with the situation, but you are working here and that means getting used to a vastly different approach to teaching and schooling.
     
  4. Sorry Mattie, but at least you COULD go through those exams and tests in order to teach. Here in W. Yorkshire the OTT program simply DOES NOT EXIST. Yet I am required to go through it for a year before I can teach. And I have a B.A., and M.A., and a Ph.D.!!!

    In other words, unless I can convince my husband to move to London, my teaching career is over. Meanwhile I make £8 an hour as a "Cover Supervisor" -- that's £634 a month. Could you live on that?

    Furthermore, I have had to go through most of the things you enumerated just to be able to LIVE here, much less to get a teaching position. Twice, in fact -- I was deported by Charles Clarke because I didn't ask him for permission to get married.

    Artbot, I have been seriously considering suing the government for "Indirect Discrimination on the Basis of Nationality." It makes no sense that an NQT from any European country can teach here, but, for instance, someone with degrees from Harvard and twenty years' experience CAN'T.

    If you are interested in pursuing a group action, please contact me. I've got a lot of documentation ready to go and am in touch with my MP about it.
     
  5. Yes it is ridiculous. You could argue that UK teachers are better than us except in my school most of the teachers that joined or were present at the time I arrived have been forced out as poor teachers.

    Why does the UK have so many schools in "Special Measures?"

    It is also a throw back from the colonial days. Certain members of society want us all under some control. I always win though. The schools need me far more than i need them. When I get sick of their ways I just leave. I am never without work.

    I did QTS and it was pathetic. I learned nothing which goes along way to reveal why the UK is in such an educational mess.

    In case you Britz get the wrong message, I do class many of you as good or excellent teachers, fit for the job. I just think we are as good. The QTS smells of racism to me.
     
  6. What is all the fuss about?

    The QTS tests are hardly rocket science!? All they ask for is an assurance of a (very) basic understanding of key skills, which surely every teacher should have. Even a music teacher needs to be able to write grammatically and understand progress statistics etc.

    b.reeder, I think racism is a bit of an over-the-top claim... These tests have to be taken by all trainee teachers in this country before they achieve qualified teacher status.
     
  7. Funny how it's similar for us UK teachers teaching in Australia!!!! Even with our QTS, we still have to be assessed for our qualifications in a similar way and if staying permanantly, we have to do a similar "induction" year.

    Besides, as has been said before, the skills tests are only basic things that all teachers should know anyway surely!???

    I understand that it is frustrating for you being paid less but teaching is hardly one of the lowest paid jobs most people from abroad can do. In TNT, it's one of the highest - not something I'd whinge about!
     
  8. Gummybear

    Gummybear New commenter

    "The QTS smells of racism to me. "

    Chill out breeder ! Racism?? Never heard such ****.

    I agree that the whole QTS jumping through hoops things is a pile of nonsense but I think some of you need to get out more.



     
  9. Gummybear

    Gummybear New commenter

    Well said Janemk.
     
  10. I don't see how it can be considered racism when all trainee teachers regardless of what race they are have to complete the skills test.

    The only thing that is discretionary is the requirement to have GCSE's in Maths, English and Science (after 1979). This can be decided by the university through equivalency tests.



     
  11. How can something be racist - it can only discriminate against EVERYONE, as everyone has to do it. Therefore it is the complete opposite of, and as far removed from, racism as can be. Unless it's racist against the human race. Ha ha - that's really made me laugh.
     
  12. rach1968

    rach1968 New commenter

    Well, I think it is good news that teachers from abroad are expected to meet and attain the standards we expect our trainee teachers to. I went to school abroad until I was 10 and my brother was 12 and i have to say that whatever anyone else says, the English education system is much better than many education systems abroad. I know this will get me a slating, but having been through both education systems I know which I would choose for my children. It must be annoying having to jump through the hoops here, but we all have to do it. When teaching abroad English trained teachers have the same type of problems(I have a friend who emigrated to Australia a year ago and here she was a teacher consultant and is having lots of hoops to jump through to get back into the classroom in Australia).

    rach1968
     
  13. I don?t have any problem with OTTs having to get QTS or passing the skills tests. I got my QTS a couple of years ago and this has made a huge difference in my life: I went straight away to the top of the pay scale after getting it, I could use the QTS evidence to apply for my threshold a year later, I got a permanent contract, I got my ILR without any trouble (and now I am applying for my citizenship), I could buy a nice flat, etc. However, there is something that really annoys me: why British and overseas teachers have to go through the whole process of getting QTS and teachers who qualified in the EU don?t even need to sit a simple English test? I have been teaching in the UK for almost 6 years and during this time I have met some EU teachers whose level of English is really poor and still managed to get their QTS automatically. Here you have some examples:

    We had a supply teacher from Poland who needed his bilingual dictionary to read Oxford Reading Tree books - stages 2-4 (very simple sentences with repetitive patterns) to our Year 1 children.

    Two years ago, an agency sent a supply teacher (from Spain) to our school. We were amazed at how she dared to take a Year 5 class without having a good command of the language. Since I speak Spanish, I asked her if she didn?t mind doing it but she replied she had come to work as a teacher to have the chance to learn English at the same time. She said to me: ?It?s quite easy because I simply say things and wait for the children to correct me. Since I know I won?t see them again, I don?t mind if they criticise me or if they laugh at me. I learn English and I earn good money at the same time? :(

    Last month, we had a supply teacher from Italy who couldn?t even read out a simple list of words during a spelling test in Year 1. The T.A. just couldn?t believe it!

    I don?t want to sound patronising at all. On the contrary, I am also an OTT whose native language ISN?T English. I know I have an accent and my English may not be completely perfect. However, before even considering applying for jobs in the UK and America, I made sure my English was good enough to deliver good lessons, to secure good topic understanding and behaviour, to write clear reports and to gain the parents? trust and my colleagues? respect. I wouldn?t have been able to do it otherwise!
     
  14. rach1968

    rach1968 New commenter

    I didn't realise that EU teachers aren't expected to satisfy the same criteria as all other overseas and British trained teachers! That is shocking! No wonder so many of you are p****d! Everyone should have to prove they are capable of conversing (to a good standard) in English. What is the point of having teachers who can't? I would be annoyed myself if I thought that I was going to teach in another country and only certain nationalities had to prove themselves! I guess it's all to do with the fact that Europeans can move around throughout Europe without any constraints.
     
  15. I have found this thread very interesting. I am a British teacher but I actually went to Queensland to carry out all of my teacher training, where I intended to live. Upon completing my qualification, I was unable to get a residency visa without 3 years work experience so have returned to the UK. Of course I am deemed to be Unqualified here and have to go through the OTT program to gain QTS. I cannot begin my NQT year until I have got QTS so the pressures facing me during my first term of teaching are quite intense. My headteacher has told me that no funding is provided for the OTT program and I cannot have my NQT release time as would normally be the case. The system does not make sense - teachers trained in the EU just walk into QTS in the UK, yet teachers like myself trained in Australia (an education system with far more in common) have to suffer.

    Also thought I would mention, in response to some earlier posts in this thread, that the whole situation does not appear to be a veiled attack on foreign teachers, ie. those who want a life in the UK, because I am British but Aussie trained and face the same problems.
     
  16. Gummybear

    Gummybear New commenter

    "I didn't realise that EU teachers aren't expected to satisfy the same criteria as all other overseas and British trained teachers! That is shocking! No wonder so many of you are p****d!

    OMG neither did I!!!?? I is getting it now.

    Sorry to y'all - I realise now why you are all annoyed. I think it is terrible the EU teachers don't have to meet certain standards in English. Awful. The hoops I had to jump when teaching in Spain.
     
  17. badpower

    badpower Occasional commenter

    in order to be a teacher in this country you must be able to meet the minimum requirements. Everyone has to do these tests not just overseas teachers.

    Stop complaining, do the tests, get yourself a better job.
     
  18. I would LOVE to sit all the QTS exams, believe me!

    The problem isn't that we OTTs would have to sit exams. The problem is that we have to be hired by a school willing to take on an OTT and go through the whole process BEFORE we can take the exams. And trust me, finding a school to hire an OTT is like finding a needle in a haystack.

    As I said before, no school in my entire county will do it, at least in my subject area. Last year there were TWO OTT positions in W. Yorkshire, and neither were in MFL.

    So it's not jumping the hoops that's the problem. It's that we don't even get the chance to jump them.
     
  19. Hi, I do understand your position as you have taught in your own country and should be able to teach in the UK too.
    I am British born Chinese and have only taught in England so far-still very early stages in career-end of my 3rd year (including the NQT year)
    Everyone though has to have QTS to teach at state Primaries and I think at state secondary too. The skills tests are annoying as I personally had to work very hard to do my Maths and Science GCSEs and as I knew I wanted to teach these had to be a C grade or more-had to do English as well. Did think at the time why after having done GCSEs do I need skills tests as well-but I knew they had to be done.
    I am on supply at the moment with an agency who asked to see verification of my skills tests before employing me-I used to teach at a school as a Class Teacher for 2 years and no-one asked me then! They are good and an indication of your own proficiency in the core subjects.
    Be thankful that you are teaching in England-most of the European countries require you have more qualifications than we do-as in 2 years of NQT induction and exams in other things-I read it in a TES article.
    I think we get off lightly in this country-my Aunt lives and works as a speech therapist in Canada and often tells me of the intense pressure Canadian teachers face in their early careers or before qualifying.
    We do have it easier as once we've done QTS, skills tests and passed the NQT year we are hone free-unless we engage in professional misconduct etc.
    And on reading what the US ask for I would much rather teach here for the time being.
    Will be going to do soem voluntary teaching in Thailand for 2 months which should be great.

    Good luck

     
  20. rach1968

    rach1968 New commenter

    Pressure on the teachers in Canada obviously isn't doing any good then - I went to school there until I was 10 and believe me, their education system is far poorer than ours!My brother was held back a year when he first came back to England (he caught up eventually and finished school when he should have)!
     

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