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QTS -its just ridiculous

Discussion in 'Overseas trained teachers' started by artbot, Jul 1, 2006.

  1. rubytaffeta: yes u mentioned about getting together-we need to inform all Antipodean teachers and see what we can do-I would like to lobby the Government to have seperate legislation in regards to the hardship suffered for overseas teachers coming to Great Britain-Sure QTS for NQT's ok I might just accept that but for us its only making our stay worse than it already is!!!
    I mean how do they think we survive here? On this poxy "Unqualified" wage-I dont think they realize how hard it is to live here compared to australia or New Zealand-then they say save for your pension-with what?
    We need to get the word out and see how annoyed other Antipodean are with this system.
  2. not just england...& not just music...have you heard of recent developments in Scotland re: Fresh Talent and how desperate the Scot Exec is to attract talented migrants with a passion for Scotland to boost the rapid population decline? Well...

    A year ago I applied for my dream job teaching history in the remote highlands. Got job but school realised my GTCS rego only for English. This meant nothing to me - I have equal qualifications (dual BA/BEd in History/English) and had submitted both to GTCS making the fatal error of assuming secondary teachers were dual subject here as well...NOPE!

    The school said they could not employ me but put me on in the position as supply because they were desperate...& over the next month I nearly tore my hair out in frustration - after 6 million emails to GTCS, getting my teaching college in Oz involved (they had to outline the entire Qld tertiary system) I was told I didn't have sufficient credit points toward history rego:
    a) because they forgot to count one (duh...) &
    b) they thought Australian unit credits were worth less than Scottish (eh??? same amount of work??)

    Once they backed down on these two points it meant I had enough credit...but...NOOOOOO....

    They informed me that they would allow 2 units on Australian history to count, but couldn't allow one unit on Ancient Civilizations (that's early civilizations, Rome, Greece...) because it was not in the Scottish curriculum and therefore NOT RELEVANT...OH MY GOD! On the VERY DAY I got this email I had not one but THREE lessons to S1 students on Peatbog man/druids - ANCIENT BLOODY CIVILIZATION!

    When I informed the GTCS they stuttered and THEN they told me that I was now a 'special case' and would have to wait until February for a decision. This was November. My WHV had expired & I was on a student visa. If I didn't start my uni course I would be deported.

    I was forced to quit dream job and start uni course (including paying thousands of pounds in fees). 2 weeks later the GTCS wrote to tell me I was indeed qualified for history as they had decided to lower the bar for history credits across the board.

    Fresh Talent? Attracting highly skilled migrants who love the country? My goddam ****. I was told to consult the local MP but, I'm afraid at this point I was so drained I couldn't - had to quit uni and return to Australia.
  3. Point being...this undervaluing of o/seas teachers in going on across the board...

    I think we should take up arms.

    My entire life has been altered because someone in an office couldn't take the time to actually go through my case properly.

    It still makes me so angry: there were so many reprcussions from this that still influence my life today.

    I just get the impression that being non-British makes us somehow a little bit less human??? Ie: our life plans/goals aren't as valuable? They can exploit/take advantage of us cos they know they've got something we want - ie: life in UK
  4. How about we organise a meeting at some point? We should do something about this.....as it is completely unfair! Who is interested ?
  5. And, of course, once you have it, the bullies in the school who are xenophobic and jealous of confident teachers will try to find a way to strip you of your QTS, and get you kicked out of the profession.

    Why anyone would want to work in the UK, with its prejudice and discriminatory behaviours, is beyond me....
  6. invincible

    invincible New commenter

    As a UK qualified teacher, I wouldn't work in the UK for all the tea in China.
  7. Ailingteacher,

    I know that you had a rough time and I am sorry about that. Obviosuly your own unhappy experience will have soured your view of the country.

    However, I feel that to judge the entire UK as having "prejudice and discriminatory behaviours" on the basis of that experience ill befits anyone who aspires to be open-minded, as those who choose to live and work in other countries usually do.

    It's akin to my claiming that all American dentists are moneygrabbing and incompetent, because of my horrible experience with one such individual. Or indeed that every US president is stupid and corrupt, just because Bush has shown himself to wear those colors.

    Yes, SOME people and employers in the UK exhibit prejudice and discriminatory behaviors. So do plenty of peopel and employers in the US. Legislation against something doesn't stop it, as anyone of the "wrong" race who has attempted to rent property from a discriminatory landlord in either country will be able to tell you.

    Yes, your experience was inexcusable. But one group of unpleasant individuals doth not a nation make. Thank goodness.

  8. Yes I agree with Mattie BUT these sort of situations do not occur in Australia-there is no confusion in seeing what/who is qulaified and its a much easier system when it comes to teaching-Does Britain want overseas teachers? If the answer is yes then changes will have to occur-I feel overseas teachers are conned by agencies offering promising large wages £500 or more a week and then u find this is only offered in London!! Did not mention the high cost of living etc-and whats the reason , well agencies get paid vast sums of money to place overseas teachers in schools that no rational British teacher wants to teach in-so its a stop gap=oh and then when u say I want to to stay and have equal rights to British teachers they make it as hard as possible because THEY DONT WANT U TO STAY(therefore QTS)! Thats why u can remain as unqualified(in Australia unqualified teachers are not allowed to teach without someone in the classroom) so u can fill the gap till they get another sucker to fill the job no one wants-we left after 1 year as it was hell-hole-high and then guess what they got a South African teacher to take over! and then he left because they wouldn't offer QTS-Now I wonder why?
  9. rubytaffeta I forgot, see if we can find others who are not happy with the treatment of Overseas teachers including the QTS etc,
  10. Hello Artbot,
    I am so pleased that someone else out there shares my views. You are completely correct in stating that we are continually replaced- it's a vicious cycle that works well for the UK system don't you think? I am consering getting out of the profession as I am so over this bureaucratic rubbish......there is so much fighting one can do. I tried contacting all the newspapers in Australia, NZ and South Africa trying to warn teachers down but
    they did not get back to me.....it's a shame as I think it is a serious matter!
  11. I have just completed my TA course and are now looking for a school. Prior to starting the course, i thought it was a waste of time but learnt how important it is to get to understand how the British Education system works. As a teacher trained elsewhere, the training has given me a good start and am looking forward to working in a school.

    I also think QTS though demanding as it may be (i have only been told about this)it is neccessary to ensure the prospective teacher meets the required standard. I haven't got a problem with completing it when time comes for it. However, from my experience, teaching requires more than a piece of paper.
    I do need a lot advice from you who have experience.
  12. norfolktime

    norfolktime New commenter

    rubytaffeta: I am a Special Needs primary teacher in a mainstream Independent school in Qld. Will I have major difficulties getting work in the UK? Why do they keep up the recruiting drive over here? Many of us get the message that they want Aussies because we are motivated and well trained........so the recruitment people say. I had been told I would be paid as QTS for up to 5 years during which time I need to formally get the qualifications. What about international schools... do they want QTS?
  13. It is not the best thing one should think about doing but, it is the same rule applied for people with Post-16 PGCE qualification in the UK. Irrespective of which university you have studied in the UK, the main policy is that if you want to teach in a mainstream school, you will need to go through the rigors of GTP (which include attempting Skills Tests in Literacy, Numeracy and ICT).

    Even if you organise a rally, this will not change because you think you have submitted a Thesis for a Postgraduate qualification. I personally have an M.Sc degree and a Post-16 PGCE (all reveived in a UK University) but I am still required to take the skills test. I even know of one of my colleague who use to be a Lecturer in Post-16 Teacher Training at Greenwich University but decided to teach in a mainstream school. This same colleague, even being an English with all UK qualifications (BA, MSc and Post-16 PGCE) has to satisfy the same QTS requirements of undertaking the Skills Test.

    You need to investigat more and there are people with PhD who have also gone through the same process and with even less complain. All you need to do is to 'Put you shoulder to the Wheel' and get on with it. Professional procedures cannot be altered because you think it is happen quite differently in Australia.

    There are colleagues of mine who have found Australia system quite discriminatory to non-nationals of Australia. It is only when you travel round the world that you will begin to see what other people go through in you own country of National Abode.

    One thinkg I would say positive in the UK system is that when once you have successfully gone through the GTP, you will still have the same opportunity of progressing up the 'Pay scale' the same way as any British national.

    You must have read other people's experiences, so my advice to you is that, 'Just get on with it and STOP the grumbling. It is even more difficult for other people, to be accepted on the GTP programme let alone been considered an interview
  14. artbot: yes victoria-australia has sopmething similar to QTS. you have to register with the VIT and as a grad teacher you are expected after a year or two probationary teaching to present a portfolio to the principal etc at the school where you teach - otherwise you must stay as a probationary teacher. no skils test though - thank god as i am absolute **** at math.
  15. Hi Artbot,

    Firstly, why are you here and not still in Aus?

    Secondly I am British but trained in Aus and like you have to complete QTS - it is frustrating to have to do it but it's the same in Aus my dear - in WA anyway you have to do a conversion course if you are a UK trained teacher.

    For some EEU teachers there is a recriprocal agreement whereby teachers trained there automatically receive QTS - I think this should be the case with Aussie teachers as the education system and training is so similar so if you want to lobby the govt for that I would join you.

    Ultimately though it suits the govt. to have underpaid foreign teachers who they can use to do the supply work no one else wants to!
  16. I am disgusted to see Australians accusing the British of being racist - I've never met a bunch of more blatant racists than the aussies - from aboriginals to English (who you hate yet come to our country!!!) you hate every race - even western aussies hate victorians and vice versa - think on.....
  17. ah...that's right, bring out the old 'aussies are racist to aboriginal trick'. FTR: the whiteskins who actually did the WORST to the Aboriginal communicty were BRITISH not Australian...and how about the English ethnic cleansing in Scotland, if you want to go there? Perhaps if the Scots had a different skin tone...???

    This is not about attacks on Australians as a people anyway...are you suggesting we have a hard time getting QTS and jobs in UK because we are lesser humans than the Brits????

    Apart from that I definitely agree with you: there should be a more straightforward recognition of o/seas qualifications, esp. from countries like Australia with the volume of teachers making their way to UK and the similarity in education values/methods etc.

    It is worrying about the QTS status thing: I think former posts might be on to something: attract people here to work for **** wage and when they start trying to get on a par with local teachers, get rid of them and bring in a new round of suckers...

    I'm currently in Oz and yep, they are still hugely promoting teaching in the UK...
  18. "You have to register with the VIT"-this system has JUST come in and I really dont agree with it in Victoria either-but it still has NO SKILLS TEST-which is the main sticking point as I see it as a typical UNNECESSARY Government procedure!
    They should look at the INDIVIDUAL situation-in this case its NOT classroom teaching but peripatetic-the questions on the test relate to the National curriculum guidelines and are not to do with instrumentation so its not relevant like the tests overall-so there lies the problem-why take a bunch of tests that have no bearing what so ever on the teaching u are doing-I mean u dont "test" a construction worker on procedures of micro surgery, do you!

    Why are we not in Aus well thats a VERY long story but things like "and how about the English ethnic cleansing in Scotland" is a statement that is abit stretched-too much "Braveheart"-I mean to say that was a LONG time ago where as Modern day Australia is VERY NOW and virtually anti anyone who comes from outside Australia I am afraid to say and a VERY disappointing situation in small mindedness-I just wish it wasn't-so we feel MUCH better in the UK-much more culture and much more intellectual-I mean John Howard-give us a break-but really.........

    I dont know teaching is difficult these days and quite frankly we are looking at the USA-not in teaching high school as there seems to be trouble again but in a Community College-(cant do higher education in UK as guess what we need QTS and the pay is not worth it so Master of Education useless here)we need to fully experience ALL possibilities as both Australia and Britain has let us down in different ways we need to find somewhere who recognizes US for who we are and what we are-signs are pointing there but who knows might end up back in Australia after all...
    But more importantly to warn others in australia and other overseas teachers (before they come to the UK) I propose a OVERSEAS TEACHERS UNION-made up of mainly supply teachers but open to everyone this unit could then demand certain rights and conditions. One condition would be to be exempt from QTS and instead compare overseas qualifications like in the private school system-If you go through university and you have been teaching for years it is obvious that u are good enough-cause in the present system you actually feel "foreign"-if recognized more teachers would stay in the UK and there wouldn't be a need for recruitment drives etc-they do this in the US-there needs to be incentives to stay such as help in moving, accommodation, bonuses for outstanding work, made to feel that your not just "filling a gap"-BUT WE NEED TO FEEL WE ARE EQUAL AND WANTED! Its so easy to go back to these other countries as it is VERY hard to live here-the cost of living is incredible-Just a thought another QTS blocker was we were going to apply for the key workers scheme which would enable us to buy a house but guess what u need QTS-every door is blocked except the private system-why is that because its not so Governmentally retentive! But of course one of the biggest threats to all of this is classroom behavior-its appalling! Kids in this country are simply out-of-control-no mention of this in the white paper! Teachers should be giving knighthood's for the problems they put with-I am sure there are horror stories out there that would make the hair curl of any NQT!!!!!!!!!
  19. It's not just here in the UK...maybe it's the way it's put across - as in, when you're working in a school, you're treated like **** because you don't have QTS? Or.....maybe you're treated like **** 'cos you're seen as an overseas teacher coming here taking the jobs etc. and considered cheap labour. I know that's not true in any way - most OTT's can come here and start at the top of the main pay scale even if they have just graduated - they're that desperate for teachers in some areas.

    We have recently been checking out Australia - and going to WA in particular. There, my Canadian trained hubby with UK QTS, would have to register to do a three day course. The paperwork however, takes about 3 months to complete, and until that is done, he cannot teach even supply, or apply for a job as a full time teacher. This by the way, also applies to Australian (even WA) trained teachers if they have left the career for a period of five or seven years (can't remember which). So, a woman taking time off for family, would have to go through the same relicensing as an OTT.
    I think you will find that most countries/provinces/states have ways of ensuring that their staff understand their way of doing things. If you look at the QTS standards, it's not so much about subject knowledge - they assume your universities have trained you in that. It's more about the system here, and if you think about it, it's probably ALOT different to Australia, it's certainly ALOT different to Canada.
    Just pity the poor British trained teachers who aren't starting off at the top of the pay scale, but starting at something like under £20,000 per year and they have to do it all too. It'll take them alot longer to reach the OTT's average pay scale though.
  20. Hi, don't normally add my 2 cents worth but just wanted to say that everything you have said echoes my own thoughts over the last 10 years.

    I arrived in the UK from Australia in 1996, with a diploma of teaching - perfectly fine if you were doing supply, but next to useless for anything else. I have had to jump through every hoop going, and nothing has been easy. However, I wanted to be here and although it got me down and I admit I cried and shouted a few times over the complete unfairness of it all, I got there.

    I finally achieved QTS 2 years ago and today I have been granted indefinite leave to remain and have handed in my threshold form as well. If you want it, you really have to fight for it. Sounds trite I know, but it worked for me. I was lucky, I've had 3 Heads who were prepared to help me however they could and when I was hitting brick walls, they followed things up from another angle.

    Don't give up if you really want it. Not sure I can really offer much more by way of support or advice, but will try if you need anything.

    Good Luck in whatever you decide to do.

    Echidna xx

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