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QTLS/QTS/NO QTLS - ARRRRgggggHHHHHH my head hurts please stop the pain!

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by cheflecturer, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. The teacher reference number is used whether or not you are registered with the GTC,
    It is used to identify you within the TPS scheme, so all directly employed FE teaching staff have, and use, this number. Its just that they don't realise it.
    This is presumably also how Mikey Gee and his side-kick Smarty Pants Johnny manage to track us all down.
     
  2. LOL! Probably! Well, I've got nothing to hide, so track away! *looks shifty* ;-)
     
  3. As I am caught in the middle of this debate at the moment I thought I'd let you know what I have found out recently.
    I contacted the IfL last week to ask them what they knew about when the QTLS/QTS parity would come about. They told me that it would be the end of April (not the beginning as I was originally told). The proposals are 'still with the governement' at the moment - so in other words, don't expect anything to happen soon.
    My QTLS application is in the current cohort, so as yet I cannot say that I am QTLS qualified (should have been in the previous cohort - but that's another story). I should hear by the end of April - same time as QTLS /QTS should be sorted out.
    I currently work in two different places, both hourly paid and need to find some permanent employment if at all possible in these days of cutting back permanent positions (see my comments on FE Pay per hour - am I being naive? thread).
    I teach 7 hours per week in adult education (mainly maths, but teach English & ICT too) and the rest of my teaching time (19 hours per week) I work as a One to One Tutor in a secondary Academy supportiing English and Maths to GCSE. As I was fully qualified as far as the One to One programme was concerned, the Academy have continued to employ me directly on the same basis.
    I am currently working with Yr 7 pupils, most of whom have moderate learning difficulties and other issues, such as autism, dyslexia etc. This is an area that I particularly enjoy and have had an interest in since I began teaching and I would like to move into a Learning Support Teacher role.
    I have just applied for such a role in a local school, but contacted them first to check if I could apply as I am not QTS. I was told that I could, but would be on the Instructor scale if I was successful. I am now waiting to hear if I have been shortlisted for interview.
    Meanwhile I do not particularly want to be a classroom English teacher (I have an English degree) - which is why I didn't go into school teaching in the first place. I contacted our local ITT office to see if they had any advice for me, particularly as we have not yet got any information on the QTLS / QTS situation. The best advice that they could give me was to apply for GTP (closing date 2nd March) and by the time they have decided who to interview, if the legislation has come into force by then, I can withdraw my application.
    This will take me about 2 days to complete (started it yesterday) and cost me £22, so along with the job application I will have spent about 3 1/2 days of my half term filling in application forms - I would like to use the time to catch up on my paperwork for the teaching and get some more planning done. The other piece of advice I was given was to contact my MP - when they get involved then apparently official bodies (such as the ITT provider) tend to jump. I'm just preparing my info for the MP (another 2-3 days' worth of my time) and trying to find out when he next has a constiuency surgery as I would like to speak to him directly about this.
    So having jumped through hoop after hoop, I still feel like I am being presented with yet more to jump through. All I want to do is teach the particular groups of learners that I know I am good at teaching, not be forced into teaching GCSE English whilst I do ITT again. I am very happy to train for what I need, but at the moment I feel like I am being pushed around from one place to another, no-one seems to know what is going on, what advice to give me etc. Meanwhile I teach 26 contact hours a week and am still earning less than an NQT with no certainty of work next term.
    The stress of this whole situation is not pleasant and it would be good if the powers that be realised that it is real people whose lives are being affected whilst they make up their minds and put up more barriers for us.
    I know that I do a good job. I'd just like to be recognised for it with a proper contract and a reasonable salary.

    </h2>
     
  4. This is probably the best way forward for you (assuming you are succesful in gaining QTLS) because if you succeed in gaining this post, albeit on an instructor scale, you should be transferred to MPS under QTS/QTLS parity (if this is what happens) as some posters have reported as already being implemented in some schools.
    However I'm not sure the situation is as clear as the IfL make out; Wolf never actually proposed QTS/QTLS parity per se, and Gove, in accepting Wolf's report never actually said it either. The IfL like to frame the debate in terms of QTS/QTLS parity because QTLS is their baby.
    It's also worth noting that there has never been a requirement for QTS in non-state maintained schools and that the requirement for QTS in state maintained schools is being eroded; it's not a requirement for all Academies or for Free Schools.
    Of course, but here's the real issue.
    What Gove says is that teachers from FE (and from the private sector) should be able to work in schools on the same basis as school teachers.
    But it is no secret that his idea of a 'reasonable salary' for school teachers is somewhat different from what is school teachers' idea; and that he wants to scrap the national pay arrangements. In otherwords he wants to create the same situation in schools with regard to pay as exists in FE.
    I'm afraid the future looks uncertain, and in terms of teachers' pay I suspect we are about to enter a process of levelling down, (once the government have nailed us all to lower value pensions).
    But if KS3 SEN is your thing then go for it, I don't think you have anything to lose by it. Good luck.
     
  5. Saw my MP yesterday - he has agreed to write to Michael Gove about QTLS / QTS issue. I don't really want to have to do ITT again, so I'll relay any reply.
     
  6. Looks like it's a go.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/431/contents/made
     
  7. <font size="2">
    </font><font size="2">You've got to laugh. These new 2012 School Regs now include reference (8.(f) 13B (1)) to an FE qualification that is defined by the 2007 FE Regs, i.e. QTLS.</font> So you can teach in a school if you have QTLS, it's just in the future you wont be able to get it!
     
  8. You have many comments in many forums Sir, but not the knowlege to comment intelligently.
     
  9. mathsman

    mathsman Occasional commenter

    This was released today:
    http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/careers/careeropportunities/overseas-trainedteachers/a00205922/qlts-guidance
    Looks like that you need to remain in the Ifl as well as hold QTLS to be able to have QTS in schools
     
  10. From 1 April 2012, members of the Institute for Learning (IfL) with
    Qualified Teacher Learning and Skills (QTLS) status are recognised as
    qualified to teach in schools. Statutory instrument 2012 No. 431, which
    was laid in parliament on 9 March 2012, amends the 2003 Regulations so
    that holders of QTLS who are IfL members have Qualified Teacher Status
    (QTS) and may be appointed to permanent positions as qualified teachers,
    without any further induction requirements.
    QTLS=QTS

    QTLS is brought to you by the IfL
     
  11. You neglect to mention the long list of caveats.
    I also strongly recommend anyone that wishes to teach in schools to obtain QTS. It is a once-in-a-lifetime qualification which is not dependent on payment of fees to any bodies (such as the IfL) in order for you to teach in schools.
    Parity? I think not.
     
  12. mathsman

    mathsman Occasional commenter

    Which other caveats?
     
  13. Stop repeating yourself, barneyboy! It won't be so just because you say it often!
    Privatising FE is an interesting way of describing it. We already are independent in most ways, including receiving funding! No really.... we are!
    And as you well know QTS and QTLS parity is in no way a reality.
     
  14. The really big one being that to benefit from QTS/QTLS parity you have to be employed by a school, in which case you will be paid the same as a school teacher with QTS. In which case; happy days.
    However since QTLS does not itself, unlike QTS, qualify you to teach in a school it is unlikely that, unless you teach an unusual subject, that it will, of itself, help you get a teaching job in a school.
    But the most obvious caveat is that parity is only of benefit to the tiny minority of FE teachers who do switch from FE to school teaching.
     
  15. If you teach in a 'Sixth Form College' you do not have to belong to the IfL and there has never been any national requirement for teachers in Sixth Form Colleges to join the IfL.
     
  16. Teachers in Sixth Form Colleges have never been required to join the IfL.
     
  17. But Pob, thats the very tip of the point. Privatising FE at the same time as QTLS/QTS parity, gives the teachers the upper hand to make real change, the colleges are free to collect those extra funds that would have gone to HE and the schools gain by having a broader, stronger curriculum offer with more diversity of subjects. The learners win all around - more choice for lower cost.
    This all thanks to the IfL. Swings and Roundabouts and the entire package.
     

  18. I don't think anyone said they did... and now no-one in any FE college has to either!!

    Oh barneyboy, please stop! You sound all squeaky. And you seem to have made some mighty big leaps with your conjectures there!! Weird!
     
  19. Which teachers? The upper hand to make what changes?
    What extra funds going to HE? I'm unaware of such funds, indeed my understanding is that less public funds will be going to HE in future years. And if such funds existed, how would colleges 'collect' them?
    I don't know if you have ever taught in a school, but there are three things, and three things only that schools care about; league tables, league tables and league tables.
    Schools certainly don't care about QTS/QTLS parity or the IfL; why would they?
    Just so that we have a better understanding of where you are comming from Mr Beans; what is it you teach?

     
  20. Spot on as usual, Mr Shirtandtie.
    And yes - what on earth does Mr Beans teach?
     

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