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QTLS, L5 and future teaching if you haven't got these

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by pepsidrinker, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. Hello all

    Is it just me or does nobody in your FE colleges seem to be taking this seriously either?
    After this year if you don't have the full teaching qualifications (eg PGCE and Cert.Ed) plus a Level 5 Subject Specialism (if you have L4 you still need to upskill), then you can no longer teach as a lecturer.
    If you qualified in the last few years you have to apply for QTLS, plus, does anyone know if the need to gain a Masters Degree is going to apply to FE tutors as well as teachers in schools?
    All of these changes and no real infromation as to what will happen.
  2. At present there are no plans to make FE teaching a masters level profession.
    Skills for Life aside, there are no subject specialist requirements other than those (in the case of accredited programmes) stipulated by awarding bodies. FE is a broad church and it would be virtually impossible to set a universal requirement for subject expertise at level 4 or 5.
    The <u>FE Teachers' Qualification Regulations</u> require all teachers who come into post after 1st September 2007 to achieve the level 5 Diploma (full teaching role) or level 3/4 Certificate (associate teaching role) and go on to get QTLS or ATLS status within five years of date of employment.
  3. I would be interested to find out who decides if it is your first teaching role. The reason I ask is my first " official teaching role" began January 2008, but I had been teaching apprentices at College on day release since 2005, however my official title was Course leader/Internal verifier/Assessor/Trainer (quite a mouth full I know). I completed my Cert ed August 2007 at Level 4. Therefore because I started my first role as a lecturer in Jan 2008 do I have to apply for QTLS ( or in my case ATLS as the Cert ed prior to 2008 was only level 4).
    So because I never had lecturer or Teacher in my job title till after the cut off date do I have to jump through the hoops? If so why?
    I have tried to get an answer on this but no one seems to know the answer ( yes I have tried IFL, e-mail and by phone but no one ever answers the phone and never get a reply to my e-mails).
    It doesnt look good for the future if no one can make decisions on things like this now.
  4. Crikey! That doesn't match my experience with them!
    Yes, you could probably not bother, as could I as I too taught bits and bobs from 2000. I also got my cert the month before the cut off date.
    But as it is only paperwork I am filling in the Reflect thing!! Seems easier to just do it rather than squeak about it later!
  5. Hi

    Yes I agree it is only a bit of paperwork and I could do it, however why should I have too? Before I had lecturer in my job title I was told if I wanted to continue to teach my apprentices at the College I would need to obtain my Cert ed. Therefore I jumped through that hoop and ticked that box. Now three years later I am told (not confirmed yet) that because I didn't have lecturer in my job title before Sept 2007 I now have to apply for QTLS( in fact its ATLS because my Cert ed is a level 4 , so I will only be an Associate teacher and not a Qualified teacher). This is the question I keep asking and can not get an answer. I have been teaching since 2005 and can not see why I should be treated any differently to anyone else, just because I didn't have teacher in my job title. I am all for CPD and upgrading my skills and am currently working towards my masters degree and have just completed my level 7 qualification in management, but am reluctant just to jump through hoops without an proper explanation as to why.
  6. I think you've been fed some misinformation, stevesgh, at least I hope so!
    From the IfL page on membership grades link
    Member - MIfL
    Experienced practitioners within post-16 education and training, who hold a minimum of the level 5 Diploma (Diploma in Teaching in Lifelong Learning Sector, DTTLS) or equivalent (such as a PGCE, Cert. Ed, General Professional Recognition or level 4 Stage 3 FE Teacher Qualification), or level 4 stage 1 or 2 FE Teacher Qualification for part time teachers employed before September 2007.
    A Cert Ed has level 5 equivalence!
    And you should find that the words Experienced practitioners include some posts that are not designated 'lecturer'. The criteria is that you taught before the 2007 date. I was not a lecturer before all of this began but would have been able to get MIfL as I educated in a community setting - not called a lecturer, but it counted!

    You seem to be in a similar position to myself, and I have had no problem with getting my CFET and past work OK'd.

  7. Rubbish. Who is telling you this?
    The Further Education Teachers&rsquo; Qualifications (England) Regulations 2007 do not use the term lecturer at all. They use the term 'teacher'. which they define as 'a person who provides education at a further education institution under a contract of employment or a contract for services'.
    See http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20072264_en_1
    Therefore if you were employed to provide education at a FE college before September 2007 then you do not need to apply for QTLS.
  8. Thanks S+T, I knew I had that bit right.
    Counts as being a practitioner - you taught them! If that did not count then all of those who 'taught' NVQs would be stuffed!"

    I didn't know you could do that! I thought a Cert Ed was a Cert Ed and therefore a Level 5 equivalent!

  9. Toads, that posted before I had finished.
    Is it posible stevesgh, that like my CFET, the Cert Ed is called one thing that is APLd to Level 5?
    My CFET is designated by the awarding body (C+G) as level 4 stage 3, you see, but has Level 5 equivalence!

    But like I said, I don't know for sure!
  10. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    The classic stupidity of present-day F E.
    Where there should be clarity there is chaos
    This constant paperchase and form filling is a madness.
    Thankfully I graduated with my PGCE F E in June 1995 and I don't intend doing anything more by the way of paperchasing or joining any silly little callcentre quasi organisation.
    For me it will be old jeans, T shirt, hair grown long, teach philosophy and home for a spliff.
    And I even had my Skills for Life teaching qualification a year before my PGCE FE.
    Bring back the Basic Skills Agency and let's get down the pub at lunchtime.
    Avoid the suited and booted thirty-something Thatcherite wonker manager psychopaths and their silly conferences.
    They only do it because they haven't got any actual knowledge to impart - in short, they can't teach.
  11. Only too true.

  12. If you're at home smoking spliffs I am not sure you can moan about clarity Jude. P.S the taking of such substances is illegal. For the record you understand.
  13. Hello
    I have a PGCE, the new one (which is level 7) and the level 5 in English. Even though I have a degree in English, I still had to do the L5 specialism. I still need to do the level 5 in Maths to be able to continue teaching it in SFL in the future.
  14. Who exactly says you have to do this?
  15. Find them and shoot them - they were wrong!
    Unless you are referring to an L5 I have been hitherto unaware of!
  16. Hi
    We were all told this on the new Professional PGCE and then again by The Centre of Lifelong Learning after we qualified (and again by management and the tutors of the L5 course). We also have to gain QTLS within 5 years of qualifying to enable us to continue as lecturers as we qualified after 2007.
    I emailed IFL after reading some of these answers and they confirmed that this is correct if you qualified after 2007. I understand your comments as I thought that this was odd too, especially as I hold a L7 teaching qualification. So think yourselves lucky that you qualified earlier than me.
  17. Hello again
    This extract from the government document for anyone working in FE post 2007 says it all really.
    Teachers in full teaching roles to hold appropriate qualifications and QTLS<font size="3">1.&mdash;<strike>(1)</strike>(1)

  18. Pepsidrinker
    I understand the bit about needing an L5 teaching qualification and QTLS.
    But what you originally said was that you also need an additional L5 subject specialism. And I can't see this in the regulations.
    Am I to understand that LLUK and IfL have confirmed to you the requirement for an L5 subject specialism? Yet the Deputy Director of IfL has confirmed the complete opposite on this thread (post #2).
    BTW what do you teach?
  19. Can someone PLEASE explain this all to me in really simple terms! [​IMG]
    I am a qualified teacher (BA Ed) QTS - though primary school trained - can I teach within FE - more specifically within life skills and with entry level students?
    What are these Level 4 and Level 5 qualifications being spoken of?
    If not what do I need to do to be able to do so?
    Sorry I have tried looking through the web and the info I read assumes you already seem to know these basics? Which I so obviously don't!
  20. Yes provided you gain QTLS within two years.
    Yes if a college offers you a job to do so.
    GCSE Grade C and above is L2
    A - levels L3

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