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Pupils telling teacher to f off or you are an a r e

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by heldon, Jan 21, 2016.

  1. heldon

    heldon Occasional commenter

    If a pupil hurls verbal abuse at a teacher, can that teacher request that the police deal with it- or do we just have to take it? Not happened to me for a while but I know it goes on?
  2. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    It's breach of the peace. They'd get lifted in the streets.

    Schools are not above the law.
  3. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    Legally it can be classed as a Breach of the Peace but whether the police would be prepared to charge the pupil or whether the procurator fiscal felt it would be in the public interest to proceed with the charges is another matter.

    That said no-one should have to accept it and in most instances its an automatic exclusion.
  4. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    It certainly feels as if they are! Not schools,mind,just the pupils.
    ScotSEN likes this.
  5. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Lead commenter

    Police matter.
    In the past I'd just have accepted it as part of the job, but I don't see why I should.
  6. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    I don't think the police or court system could survive if they had to deal with every such instance. Could you not consider using the school discipline system instead?
    awizarsd49 and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Potatoes005

    Potatoes005 Occasional commenter

    If you had a Head that was considered a threat by the kids and dealt with incidents of telling teachers to fuuck off with the necessary Army Seargeant Major style of discipline then you wouldn't have to phone the polis.

    It alarms me though that one would consider phoning the police on a child before consulting a policy like Getting it Right for every Child which would strongly discourage this. I expect.

    Being told to fuuck off by the kids is part of the job. It certainly was in the 70s and right up til now.

    If someone working a pub or in a call centre got told to fuuck off by a customer I don't think they'd be going phoning the polis on a breach of the peace charge.
  8. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    That's one of the reasons it's there. If it only applies to pupils who forget pens then set a member of SMT on to the pupil. If SMT can't be bothered then change schools.
  9. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    I think Pots' response might need some qualification? Where this kind of thing happens but on an exceptional basis then treat it as a learning opportunity and consider what led up to it and whether you may have acted otherwise and prevented it. You should certainly use the school's behaviour system and the kid should be sanctioned, maybe via an apology etc. ON THE OTHER HAND ... If this is a common place incident in the school, it needs to be tackled and put right. I mention this mainly because I have just watched a C4 news report re the Ann McGuire stabbing and it seems likely that a lot has been covered up by the school. I'm not suggesting that your incident is comparable except in the generality that bad behaviour must never be ignored or covered up. That way chaos lies ...
  10. Potatoes005

    Potatoes005 Occasional commenter

    My approach was:

    Any pupil reported to be swearing or using other foul or inappropriate language toward a member of staff or a pupil had their parents written to or I phoned them at the first offence. Every time. Regardless of circumstances surrounding the outburst they still got contacted. I always made sure I found out the circumstances before making contacting.

    Or should I say DHTs or Guidance found out the circumstances and told me.

    Where a repeated pattern of verbal outbursts continued we would start trying to work with parents to find a solution, and on a number of occasions this involved sending pupils to anger management classes and other similar things.

    I will be the first person to admit that I could swear like a trooper, both in conversation and in a temper. Both of which I still do. But there's a time and a place and I never swore at my staff or pupils.

    Generally, I will say in the sheer majority of cases, after I'd contacted parents once on the first incident I rarely had to contact them again, or heard of any similar outbursts.

    Although I did come down on swearing and any other form of verbal or physical violence very hard in comparison to some.
  11. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    Oh that all Heidies took that approach! In my experience, where schools experienced a decline in standards (academic and behaviour) it was often because of an over lax attitude by a new HT and /or DHTs. Ditto in a department. While I mentioned the need for a teacher to reflect on his / her role in an incident, that's in the context of a school which has a behaviour system that is consistent in sanctioning poor behaviour and in getting the support of parents for this. Once you start making excuses for pupils' poor behaviour choices (as opposed to understanding their circumstances and supporting their better choices) then you really are headed for hell on wheels. DAMHIK!
  12. Potatoes005

    Potatoes005 Occasional commenter

    As you'll well know Dominie, having come in to the game at a similar time as me - there was a day when no bad behaviour whatsoever was tolerated.

    I kept that up right to the end.

    Some Head Teacher's I hear about now ought to start. Discipline and standards are good.

    Schools should exist on a platform of mutual respect between all staff and pupils. That often seems forgotten.
  13. morrisseyritual

    morrisseyritual Occasional commenter

    I can't fault Pot's example as the best response.
  14. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Lead commenter

    A FH in my school habitually calls the parents whenever a ned pupil is sent to him. It seems to work. None of this tree-hugging nonsense.
  15. Potatoes005

    Potatoes005 Occasional commenter

    Good. Some more folk want to try these approaches as opposed to solving things with a wee cuddle and a chat. Lack of discipline these days that's the problem
    bigjimmy2 likes this.

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