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Public sector pay cap to be lifted next year, No 10 says

Discussion in 'Education news' started by Smithy84, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    I was referencing the national pay scales not personal pay arrangements, as I said before those at the start of their career and those not going to get further increments feel it most. I really won't rise to the hourly vs holiday debate that is for folk that work or have worked outside education.

    I have made the case before on TES for more realistic regional differentials since the value of money varies so greatly depending on where you live.

    Edit - I don't recall ever speaking to anyone who went into teaching for the money and when I was at school *way back when teachers were frequently on strike for pay rises it is an ongoing thing, it goes with the territory, always criticised always cut, it's a wonder people don't know this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  2. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Occasional commenter

    I really do not understand how you can say that Teachers have a decent salary whilst at the same time not acknowledging that the hours worked for a given salary are an important factor in deciding whether or not the salary is "decent".

    As to "that is for folk that work or have worked outside of education." that makes no sense unless you are trying to say that those who have known nothing but working in education know no better and should be thankful for their lot.

    As it happens I have worked outside of education working in industry, the city and for a decade running my own business and I can say wholeheartedly that the pay and work life balance in teaching stinks.
     
  3. phlogiston

    phlogiston Lead commenter

    True that few people go into teaching for the money, but you expect enough to live to a reasonable standard.
    Actually, there were few grumbles about pay between the early nineties and the early years of this decade. The pay review body did a pretty good job of providing big enough pay rises to keep teachers happy without upsetting the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The real damage was done by the Coalition (majority Tory) Government of 2010 which promptly demolished the national teachers' pay scale, ensuring that any pronouncements about pay rises would not necessarily translate into money for every teacher.
     
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  4. phlogiston

    phlogiston Lead commenter

    That is true, but is the sort of argument that the paymasters of the economy use to deny everyone a payrise.
     
  5. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    If it's true then what's the problem? Surely we can't demand payrises for the sake of it, if inflation was not rising would we be demanding pay rises? Paymasters of the economy? Who are they? PS employees work in a monopsony situation where unless they change employers out of the sector they are subject to limitations in pay as they only negotion with one organisation in the "market" which can by definition stagnate wages because of the monopoly power they have. I think we should be made aware of the dilema that will eventually make our lives more complicated, difficult or impossible when we sign our contracts since it's practically inevitable that this situation will arise over a time frame that involves changes of political control. Yet we want more nationisation which when Government changes occur *which is inevitable because our voting pattern swings like a pendulum, will affect even more employees.
     
  6. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Also true, but who dictates the standard? One persons wealthy is another persons poor and everyone claims to be poor if it means they get more money from the declaration... just think, should everyone have a duckpond complete with duck house? That was that persons "standard" clearly but none of us wanted it paid for by public funds did we?
     
  7. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Did I say teachers have a decent salary? Do pay attention. I spoke of regional variances in purchasing power, this inference being that we all in it together does not reflect that living expenses in one part of the UK are substantially higher than mamy other parts of the UK... thus real incomes vary.
     
  8. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Now this may surprise you but there are lots of demanding jobs outside teaching and the terms and conditions are far worse. That is what I said and that is what I meant. I stand by it much and as I understand we must fight our corner we are not all the most hard done by in society and should at least face that.

    Edit - as i said before those at the start of their career feel it most as they are closest to the national average income level, quite possibly below it.
     
  9. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I wonder how much SLT and Academy Chain salaries have risen in the years since 2010?

    Because the car parks seem to be filling up with luxury end cars...
     
    needabreak likes this.
  10. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Established commenter

    There is a finite pot of money, but there could be more for pay with higher taxes, more lending or cutbacks elsewhere.

    Yes, a bus driver warns less than me, but bus driving isn't a graduate professions.

    Teachers have LOWER salaries than the average graduate.

    Apparently, we're all in this together. And yet public sector salaries (or the lack of rises in them) are reducing the defecit.

    If we were really all in this together, the public sector would get the same increases as everyone else and taxes would be raised to reduce the defecit. Everyone paying their share.

    By not raising taxes and using the rises we should be having, the public sector are paying their own share + everyone else's.
     
    schoolsout4summer likes this.
  11. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Occasional commenter

    You said that teachers salary was not low. in numeric terms I would agree, However, once you compare with other graduate professions and esp when you consider the work life balance then the teaching package is poor no matter where in the country you work.

    TBH I would not mind being paid less if the W/L balance was reasonable.
     
    schoolsout4summer likes this.
  12. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Occasional commenter

    No doubt there are jobs like that but I really do not think we should be in any race to the bottom.

    I have had many jobs that are very demanding but none that have the poor pay-excessive work-long hours of teaching. I would not mind so much if the things that contribute to the tediousness of a lot of the work was actually of any use to anyone.
     
    schoolsout4summer likes this.
  13. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    I agree the work life balance should be a priority. I'm not sure teaching should be compared to other graduate careers since we didn't choose those other careers we entered a challenging, relatively low paid and undervalued professsion with our eyes open and many could have gone for the big bucks if we had chosen to. Money does not appear to have been the main motivator.
     
  14. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Thinking on workload we should perhaps be thinking along the lines of some kind of work to rule or at least our unions should.

    We would be taking action to implement our known priorities while negating the unnecessary nonsense... they can't sack us all *not at the same time anyway so what's the worst that could happen?
     
  15. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Lead commenter

    Ditto
     
  16. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Lead commenter

    Bridge Learning Campus in Bristol for smart Audis, Beemers and Mercs.
     
    lanokia likes this.
  17. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Occasional commenter

    Money may not have been the main motivator but the job I took 15 years ago is not the one I am doing today, the conditions were much, much better then. You are right about money I was being paid more as a recent graduate 25 years ago and had a life.

    My nephew left university 3 years ago and is now earning more than me on UPS3 AND he has a life.

    Sometimes we forget that this is a job, nothing more. Politicians play on the idea that nursing/teaching et al are a vocation and we are our own worst enemy for accepting it.
     
    needabreak likes this.
  18. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Occasional commenter

    Are you having a bubble? Do you live under a bridge?

    NASUWT and I believe the NUT have been instructing member to undertake Action Short Of Strike Action for YEARS, it is precisely because members have largely not followed the instructions (think of the children, it's a vocation!) that we are in this mess.
     
    JohnJCazorla and needabreak like this.
  19. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Our own worst enemy for not listening to recommendations of our representatives and for continuing to knock ourselves out ... do I have a problem with that? A bit but it's down to personal choice... but to then moan about actions that we have by our refusal to act in our own interests to prevent... Well yes actually I do have a problem with that because it's inconsistent with our own interests. I tend to be pro active in most things, if I don't approve of something I try to change it, if that fails I can only change me or change the situation I'm in. Lots of teachers are doing this and their action will eventually have a knock on effect to those still in post but it will clearly still take time.
     
  20. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Occasional commenter

    If I am moaning about the lack of adherence to ASOSA it is because so many just do not go along with such actions and then complain about having poor conditions etc especially if they then go onto complain that the unions do nothing to prevent the worsening work conditions.

    Perhaps the unions need to be more pro active in getting their points across more school visits etc from senior reps, make people understand the importance of realising that the members ARE the union.
     

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