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Public nudity & assault - Is anyone to blame here?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Jan 2, 2018.


Who should know better?

  1. The woman alone

    1 vote(s)
  2. The man alone

    13 vote(s)
  3. Both the woman and the man

    18 vote(s)
  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    To be clear, I do not endorse any behaviour reported in this news story. The video linked on the news site shows the events clearly and gives the context. A half-naked woman walking through a public music festival attended by large numbers of drunken people is groped by a man. She then pursues him, beats him and her friend upturns her drink upon him.

    Topless woman who attacked man after he 'groped her' at New Year's Eve festival defends her actions


    'A topless woman who attacked a man after he allegedly groped her at a New Year's Eve festival has defended her actions.

    Madeline Anello-Kitzmiller, 20, got her chest painted with glitter at a stall at the Rhythm and Vine Festival, held between December 29 and January 1.

    Later, as she was walking through crowds with pal, Kiri-Ann Hatfield, a fellow festival-goer filmed the moment a man ran up to Madeline, allegedly groping her.

    The clip shows the two women turn around to confront the man, before following him back to his group of friends sitting on the grass.

    As the man, wearing a blue shirt and a sunhat, cowers, the topless woman begins punching him repeatedly, while her pal throws her drink in his face.
    Mirror.co.uk, 2nd January 2017.
  2. Laphroig

    Laphroig Lead commenter

    The man was wrong. Women can wear whatever they want, wherever they want and should be free to do so..

    However, having said that, we all need to be aware that there are pl onkers around with a sense of entitlement who think they have the right to force themselves on others. We owe it to ourselves to be aware of this.

    Well done to the woman for calling him out as she did. I hope that I have the courage to do so if anything s8milar happens to me.
    Lalad, Nanny Ogg, ilovesooty and 3 others like this.
  3. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Difficult one
    If you consider the groping alone the the man is entirely to blame
    The flowers on display in someone else's garden may be pretty but picking them without permission can and should lead to problems.

    I think the reaction from the woman and her friends goes beyond mere defence, though I find it remarkably hard to blame her
    Moony, knitone, ilovesooty and 4 others like this.
  4. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    If the man didn't like* seeing a woman going topless, then maybe he should have found someone to complain to. Touching her put him 100% in the wrong, and I can't imagine why anyone would defend him. Actually charging him with assault would be a good idea.

    *I don't believe this was the reason he touched her - most probably he was showing off to his friends, or is simply a pervert.
    ilovesooty likes this.
  5. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    One simply cannot grab a woman's breasts. It is illegal and plainly unacceptable. The man is is clearly in the wrong and deserves all he gets.
    Lalad, Nanny Ogg and LunaBlue123 like this.
  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Leaving aside this man's actions, is it perverted for him to be sexually attracted to bare breasts? Not so long ago I expect that both of us would have regarded sexual exhibitionism as a perversion.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  7. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    I agree.

    It does seem to have been a place where public nudity was not appropriate however.

    Madeline said that one day earlier, she had chosen to wear a sheer t-shirt, and said she was abused by both male and female festival-goers.

    There may have been an element of looking for a reaction.
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Then you think this woman should know better?
    monicabilongame likes this.
  9. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    I think there is a difference between being attracted and actually grabbing someone. As a bloke I often see females I find attractive but I wouldn't dream of grabbing any of them
    Mangleworzle likes this.
  10. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    There might have been
    Few of us are totally immune to admiring looks
    Not that I speak from a position of experience here as I am not one that tends to attract them. Quite the opposite in fact.

    I wonder who decides such things
  11. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    The story describes her assaulting and beating him.
  12. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Thanks for replying. So you do not consider this man's attraction a perversion but do you consider sexual exhibitionism a perversion?

    This question is not to imply that there is anything necessarily immoral about perversion. I wouldn't want to offend any perverts on the TES Community.
  13. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    That is how it is often treated if a man walks around with his bits out.

    I don't think anyone is considering that the attraction is a perversion, rather his action in response to his attraction is bang out of order.
    monicabilongame and needabreak like this.
  14. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    If he'd turned to his mates, and commented privately (so not shouting out) on her, then nothing further would have happened. By running after her and touching her, he could be seen as a pervert.
  15. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    I suppose much of this depends on how one defines perversion. I dont consider the action of the woman to be perverted. I am not sure if it is possible to ascertain if the man is attracted or is just trying to show off to his admiring friends.
  16. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Not hard enough, some would say.

    For example when I was young, if someone had done that to my wife/girlfriend, he'd have been looking for his teeth in the grass. I suspect that would be a common response!
    Nanny Ogg likes this.
  17. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter


    It's the running over and grabbing bit that puts him beyond the pale... hers is a reaction to an assault...
  18. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    The woman was a victim of sexual assault and took the law into her own hands. Cant say I blame her.
  19. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Good point.

    Do you think such an act was if not inevitable then highly likely at a public gathering full of drunken men? You pointed out earlier the evident escalation in exhibitionism; given that a woman's sheer top was not well received then do you think the wearer should have considered how bare breasts would be received the following day?
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I'm not a huge fan of the habit of some men, in the summer, to suddenly walk around topless...

    I have yet to run up to one, slap their belly and shout ''Cover up fatty!''

    I just think it...

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