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Primary schools open in June, thoughts?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by ridleyrumpus, May 10, 2020.

  1. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter


    "Umm we know you may not have enough staff because some are classed as clinically vulnerable and we've said they should stay at home and socially distance from others, but we've also said year R, 1 and 6 should be in school full time which is much more important so... umm... you work it out and if there's no choice and they're going to have to go into the classrooms then we are not going to tell you not to do that but we're not saying you should do that either. Basically if it ends badly it's your fault not us."
  2. strawbs

    strawbs Established commenter

    @Stiltskin you forgot the "borrow teachers" bit!
  3. che48

    che48 New commenter

    Someone who is only thinking about the economy suggested it. (Early years y1 and y6 return)
    agathamorse likes this.
  4. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    AHH I see now. The evidence that you find is "serious" but any evidence to the contrary is, not serious evidence.

    Funny that.
    fluffyowl likes this.
  5. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    "I know that is what Labour voters and unions want"

    Done a survey have you?
  6. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Well you could say that from the survey there is no evidence that they do spread Covid at that age.

    But that would be being economical with the truth.
  7. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I think I often say the science is divided but on this subject there appears to be no proof at all - as said - that teachers are at serious risk of infection due to schools re-opening.

    The one that would have ended this would be if evidence was available a Danish or German teacher for example, had been given the virus by a child - they have been back at school a month now, pretty much what most teachers will be asked to do here.

    There is none as far as I can tell? Now that would indeed be serious evidence.
  8. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    So the ONS survey that showed no appreciable difference between age groups is not serious evidence?

  9. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    It is certainly a worthwhile addition. A good analysis. However, it is all based on estimations, as it does indeed point out.

    And of course, other science says the opposite.

    Hence why I come back to, as said, that if teachers are not falling like flies in the primary schools that have opened across Europe, it appears exaggerated to portray this type of imminent danger to teachers here.

    (And of course thankfully they are not! Hopefully it will be the same here)
  10. Catgirl1964

    Catgirl1964 Established commenter

    The schools opening in Denmark and Germany have smaller class sizes, larger classrooms, better behaviour, etc. Not a fair comparison.
    Supplylady, agathamorse and oranginao like this.
  11. Grandsire

    Grandsire Star commenter

    I believe these European countries also have better testing of the general population, and a lower rate of infection within the population.

    When the Members of Parliament decide it's safe to return to sitting squashed up together on those benches in London, that's when I'll know it's safe to go back into my classroom and teach.
  12. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    What you said was that no serious evidence for young people being a vector, but there is, isn't there?
    fluffyowl likes this.
  13. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    But so we will have - I believe we are going to mirror the Danes as much as we can.

    I do not doubt it is serious research and that if offers food for thought. It is not evidence - it even says that.

    It is also counterbalanced by others claiming the opposite.

    But for the third time, if kids were such a major concern re transmitting the virus to teachers, we would have heard of a teacher going down with the virus due to teaching in other countries since they lifted lockdown.

    You don't agree? (Whatever the science argues)

    I hope it does not happen but should it be so that there is indeed serious, unequivocal evidence teachers are getting the virus from kids in schools open now, I will not hesitate to say I chose the wrong science.

    I do indeed wish the science could make up its mind.
  14. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter

    Not necessarily, due to the low r0 in the countries, small group sizes and higher social distancing measures (compared to what is suggested here) there is likely to be few new cases in any particular group.

    I think the lack of evidence and that the small amount there is being conflicting we should be extra cautious. Much as the BMA have just said.

    Still if my local area is anything to go by, there is likely to be an increase in cases in the next couple of weeks.
  15. Grandsire

    Grandsire Star commenter

    The deputy chief medical officer for England, Jenny Harries, said the falling number of cases across the community would reduce the risks further in coming weeks. “There’s a lot of anxiety I think around this, but people need to think through, in an average infant school of maybe 100 children, the likelihood of anybody having this disease is very small, and diminishing with time, so we just need to keep that in perspective.”

    Well, it turns out the average primary school has 281 pupils, and the average secondary somewhere about 900-1000... which would increase the risk 3-fold or 10-fold, depending on setting, and potentially MUCH more for some staff, since they're only the averages...

    Nothing like choosing data to suit your argument, is there?
  16. Grandsire

    Grandsire Star commenter

    And another thing...

    "Britain has the biggest primary school classes in the developed world, a new report has revealed. State primary schools in the UK now have an average of 28 pupils, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's (OECD) latest Education at a Glance study..."

    Well, THAT might also affect safety in schools, too. Maybe these other schools in other countries are able to open more safely simply because they have more space for fewer pupils than we do?
  17. Josh7

    Josh7 Occasional commenter

    And older children.

    They start when they are 6, not 4 as I understand it.

    That makes a considerable difference.
  18. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    Denmark is splitting all primary classes in two. One class occupies 2 rooms.
    Having watched the wee sprogs on telly, they seem a pretty obedient lot. I immediately noticed the difference in attitude to the normal y6 primary classes I have been in in England.
    I have to agree with dumpty here. There is not a single case of a teacher getting infected by a primary student to be found.
    If English primary schools make the same arrangements that the Danish primary schools have done then have at it I say. If English primary schools make the same physical changes to the environment, organise the students into small groups to prevent students freely mixing, enforce social distancing and hand washing then I cannot see that anyone can complain.
    However, can the average MAT be trusted to do like the Danes?
    If the UK government just published a minimum list of rules which the schools MUST follow, then all doubt can be removed from the situation. The cynic in me can just hear the MATs complaining about the cost of soap.
  19. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    So is she saying bars and restaurants can reopen if there are fewer than 100 people in?

    No, thought not.

    I’m just going to put this out there, but let’s forget about the pupils and teachers for a moment. If children are asymptomatic super spreaders, as is quite possible, then a school full of infected children will be taking it back to an awful lot of households.
  20. ACOYEAR8

    ACOYEAR8 Star commenter

    Alas, it's worse than we thought. Our Govt has said, hasn't it ?, that it will be "guided by the science"
    The science says we should not open schools yet. Has the Govt been guided ? No. Will it ?
    ridleyrumpus and agathamorse like this.

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