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Primary schools open in June, thoughts?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by ridleyrumpus, May 10, 2020.

  1. 78josie78

    78josie78 New commenter

    You want to compare us to Denmark and say we should be opening schools? Then let's really compare!

    Denmark was the second European country to go into lockdown on March 11th. Before it even had one death.

    When did the UK go into lockdown after a disasterous attempt at "Herd Immunity? March 23rd with already 336 fatalities.

    Where do the stats stand today? Denmark: 527 covid fatalities. UK: 32,692

    You need to really consider this before you push for opening our schools because other countries have already opened up. Think about how these countries have handed the pandemic and the track and trace operations they have up and running.

    Yes, the economy is and will be a mess. And yes, we would have been in a much better position as a nation if we had done the right thing and Locked down way sooner! The trashed economy is due to terrible leadership choices. It is not the fault of the people of this nation. No one should be made to feel guilty over worrying about their personal safety and feel pressure return to work in any job when our numbers as still as high as they are.

    How about some more comparisions. Why not compare the government's actions against the choices being made by the devolved nations of the UK who have all agreed - with less covid fatalities - that it is definitely too soon to even think about re-opening schools.

    And finally, how about comparing our numbers with Italy : 30,911 and Spain: 26,920 . Two of the other hardest hit nations in Europe - who we are now passing in dealths. Both these countries have taken the decision Not to open schools till autumn.


     
    fluffyowl, h001, Pomza and 7 others like this.
  2. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    The problem is you will struggle to find serious evidence that opening primary schools is of serious risk to anyone.

    Sure, you can find opinions within science that say it is but there appears to be lots out there, including evidence of testing (Iceland), that they are seriously low risk.

    https://www.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/hunting-down-covid-19/

    From it (my underlines):

    Children under 10 are less likely to get infected than adults and if they get infected, they are less likely to get seriously ill. What is interesting is that even if children do get infected, they are less likely to transmit the disease to others than adults. We have not found a single instance of a child infecting parents.
     
  3. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    Right now- for the greater good- the childcare role, that normally is a byproduct of what we do, is probably for a short time more In demand than what our primary purpose is...

    I’m not too proud or pretentious to say it.. why do people look on it as a slight on the profession?

    This ain’t a great analogy- but them nurses clinically offer tremendous skill... but at that moment that basic care and warmth is most important
     
  4. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter


    My only issue is really what is going to change by September..... because the virus will still be here. Unless by some great twist of fate there will still be no vaccine... this debate will still be the same, and I doubt there will be any other answers.

    We could have 3 months to wait, but in that time what plan are we looking to achieve? Build a fleet of new schools designed for social distancing? Find 1000s of new teachers to teach them?

    You are spot on. Massive massive mistakes at each turn.

    Teachers have got to think about this long term. I’m not sure right now some battle with the government to stall- and that’s all it is- the playing field ain’t changing- is sensible for us.
     
  5. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    I’m afraid that if we choose to serve the public- take public money and the benefits that come with it- none of us are facing redundancy for example- stalling forever more isn’t an option.

    At least until there is definitive proof that kids will get ill or transmit- and the evidence is really on the contrary right now.
     
    dumpty likes this.
  6. Catgirl1964

    Catgirl1964 Senior commenter

    You ask what will have changed by September. If all goes to plan, numbers of infections will have drastically reduced, thereby reducing the risk everywhere, including in schools. Hopefully any infections will be tracked and traced efficiently. Smaller numbers will make this easier.
     
    78josie78 likes this.
  7. Catgirl1964

    Catgirl1964 Senior commenter

    A virologist from Cambridge University on BBC News this morning admitted kids are super spreaders of viruses although they mostly are not seriously ill themselves. Just because they are not drastically affected does not mean that it is okay to be around them.
     
    78josie78 and agathamorse like this.
  8. SarcAndSpark

    SarcAndSpark New commenter

    As I've mentioned on another thread, there's indications from Denmark that their R number has gone up by 0.3 since schools reopened. And that's with smaller class sizes and a lower general infection rate than in the UK.

    In England, there's every likelyhood an increased R number would take us back up over 1, which is what the goverment is apparently keen to avoid.
     
    78josie78 and Catgirl1964 like this.
  9. a1976

    a1976 Established commenter

    Why does it not surprise me that a certain part of the public sector does not want to return to work? I think some of these posts should read, 'I don't want to lose my stay at home pay. Perhaps if unions do not want their members going back to work, then perhaps unions should pay teacher's salaries. Lord knows they have enough money by raking in member dues while they undermine this nation and encourage laziness. If you don't want to back to work, maybe your salary should stop. Singapore did not close schools but put in place methods to make them safe and minimise risk.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
    TheHeadteachersOffice likes this.
  10. Lalad

    Lalad Star commenter

    You are obviously not a teacher, or you would know that, far from being lazy and 'not wanting to return to work', teachers in the UK have been working from home, planning, setting and marking assignments for their classes, monitoring and tracking children's progress, contacting parents to ensure their pupils' wellbeing AND going in to school on a rota basis, planning and organising activities for vulnerable children and children of key workers.

    Like millions of others working from home, we are being paid because we are working!
     
  11. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    I disagree. We should always take the safe option, not opening schools, when there is no proof that children do/dont infect adults. That way no teachers die.


    OK, you could take the view that no teachers have been infected in Iceland or Denmark so we should open. As stated above, their infection rates were far lower than England.

    The state of the economy is a direct effect of decisions made by the government. The cop out that they were simply following the science is no longer valid. Cheltenham festival was March 10 to March 14. 60000 attendees each day from a variety of countries. At the time over 1000 deaths had been reported in Italy. bojo decided to announce a shutdown 4 days after Cheltenham only because organisations were taking independent decisions to cancel football and concerts without a government decision. bojo was shamed into announcing a lockdown because one was happening anyway. I will never forget hearing the CMO say that crowds were not a big cause of infection. Then there is the whole herd immunity thing which we will find out the truth of in a few years.

    So now go back to work. Sit in a crowded bus or train and then babysit the children of workers who are need to get the economy going. Schools cannot be normal until after everyone is vaccinated. it is physically impossible for all students to go back in September. You need twice the number of rooms and twice the number of teachers. Simply not possible.
     
    78josie78 and Catgirl1964 like this.
  12. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Errrm unions do want their members back at work. As soon as it is safe to do so.
     
    78josie78 and agathamorse like this.
  13. ACOYEAR8

    ACOYEAR8 Star commenter

    A study carried out in 2013 states:

    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2013.1037

    It's lengthy but worth the effort if you are looking for fodder against the nonsense spouted.


    A second source of heterogeneity in contact patterns arises from a respondent's profession or occupation. Although the questionnaires allowed for a free response for occupation, for comparison, we categorized each occupation into one of a set of 17 basic classes (e.g. health, office or school child; see electronic supplementary material for more details). Of the 5027 respondents, 175 did not provide an occupation, whereas a further 200 could not be readily assigned to a particular class. Figure 4 shows the relationship between total contact hours and a participants occupation; where applicable, we separate results into those days when a respondent works (pink) and those when they do not (green).

    [​IMG]
    Figure 4.


    Figure 4 reinforces our earlier findings that school children have predominantly more contact hours than the rest of the population, whereas retired (and therefore presumably older) people have substantially less. However, figure 4 allows us to delve into the impact of occupation in more detail; for example, teachers and service workers have significantly more contacts on working days than the national average, whereas researchers have significantly fewer (significance is established by Kolmogorov–Smirnov testing at the 95% level). In addition, unemployed people (although not individuals who have decided not to work, e.g. stay-at-home parents) tend to have the lowest number of contacts and are comparable with retired people. While such relationships between contact rate and occupations agree with intuition, our findings permit us to quantify these differences. For example, during a working day, a teacher or a healthcare worker, on average, has a least 50 per cent more contact hours than either unemployed or retired people.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  14. a1976

    a1976 Established commenter

    I was a teacher and continue to do some supply, so I think I am qualified to voice my opinion which many agree with. There are several teachers who live in my village and uh...working in the gardens going canoeing and washing cars at 2.00 isn't what I call 'working hard'.
     
    TheHeadteachersOffice likes this.
  15. a1976

    a1976 Established commenter

    I understand that. But why don't they pay teachers to work at home then, instead of the taxpayer?
     
  16. ACOYEAR8

    ACOYEAR8 Star commenter

    Given that there are over 500, 000 teachers working in the UK ,
    "There are several teachers who live in my village and uh...working in the gardens going canoeing and washing cars at 2.00 isn't what I call 'working hard'."
    can hardly be an indication of what the rest are doing. Are we supposed to be strapped to a whiteboard and paraded through the empty streets denouncing ourselves? . I have never worked as hard in all my career as I do now. One way teaching is all about creating an imaginary dialogue with every student you teach and wondering what they would respond. A spot of gardening/canoeing sounds like a blissful reward for the pressure we're all under. I begin work at 5.00 in the morning as i suppose do many. A 2 0'clock break seems acceptable.
     
  17. simonCOAL

    simonCOAL Occasional commenter

    Just seen a BBC TV news item from a school in Denmark.

    Blimey.

    Surely they’re not all like this?
    Try to catch the report if you can.

    Also, I see the teacher-hate has started.
     
  18. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    On that programme it did strike me that their discipline is probably better than ours.

    I do wonder if our leniency sometimes in schools will cause more problems in UK schools than our European counterparts and hope it will lead to better discipline being enforced in future.
     
  19. Lalad

    Lalad Star commenter

    Yesterday evening, between 7 and 9, I spent two hours marking work so that this morning, I could go out for a long walk.

    It's called time management.
     
  20. wallflowernot

    wallflowernot New commenter

    So if teachers from other groups can help with R, yr1 and 6 who will be teaching online those Yr groups not in? school
     

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