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Prevent: This is getting stupid surely

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lanokia, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    NoseyMatronType and chelsea2 like this.
  2. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    XR featured alongside threats to national security such as neo-Nazi terrorism and a pro-terrorist Islamist group. The guide, aimed at police officers, government organisations and teachers who by law have to report concerns about radicalisation, was dated last November.

    It says that issues to look out for include people who speak in “strong or emotive terms about environmental issues like climate change, ecology, species extinction, fracking, airport expansion or pollution”.


    Actually, I am quite comfortable with that.

    Extremists of any water are dangerous (with the possible exception of steam railway anoraks).
     
  3. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Whereas casual interest or nonchalance are acceptable.

    What about cakes, the Royal family, losing your job or child abuse (for instance) are people allowed to speak in "strong and emotive" terms about those things?

    A step too far.
     
  4. abwdSTEM

    abwdSTEM New commenter

    "It says that issues to look out for include people who speak in “strong or emotive terms about environmental issues like climate change, ecology, species extinction, "

    So that could include Sir David Attenborough. :eek:
     
  5. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    The people who deny or diminish the problems we are facing are the extremists. They will do far more damage than someone concerned over the climate emergency or the loss of biodiversity.

    Letting Charles Moore edit the today programme and use it to deny climate change ought to get you locked up, not understanding climate change.
     
  6. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    Freedom For Kittens Now!
     
    Laphroig and nomad like this.
  7. colacao17

    colacao17 Occasional commenter

    There's always a risk that a law ostensibly brought in for security reasons or to prevent genuine criminal activity is later used to prevent dissent and protest.
     
  8. ajrowing

    ajrowing Occasional commenter

    Who do I need to report my colleagues and students who have been to XR events to please?
     
    slingshotsally and Corvuscorax like this.
  9. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    I speak out strongly against fracking. I've signed petitions, written to my MP several times, have attended community meetings, have written to newspapers and have visited the protest camp locally with a donation.
     
  10. markdbick

    markdbick New commenter

    Thousands of scientists and many other knowledgeable people such as Lord Deben, chair of the UK Committee on Climate change are "speaking out in strong or emotive terms about climate change" In a speech in the house of Lords last year, Lord Deben, (a Conservative) mentioned the potential impact of climate change on his grandchildren, that was quite emotive! . It is utterly absurd for this to be included in advice about spotting radicalisation and risks bringing the important aspects of Prevent into disrepute.
     
  11. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    The article says it refers to people who might commit atrocities about environmental issues. Prevent is about (preventing) atrocities, not about preventing people holding strong views or campaigning for change. The article is being misrepresented in this thread.

    XR is not, AFAIK, an organisation advocating atrocities or murder, but it it's possible that some individuals, acting on their own account, might do that.

    Just because I believe in the threat from climate change doesn't mean I should be willing to accept being blown to pieces or stabbed to death by some crazy.

    Are you happy to be murdered by someone if you believe in their cause? I'm not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
  12. markdbick

    markdbick New commenter

    Same here - this needs a rapid apology and withdrawal by the Government otherwise I reckon we should all report ourselves and our colleagues to Prevent first thing on Monday morning!!! The biggest issue is that this brings the prevent system into disrepute and there are very serious aspects of anti-extremism.

    Preventing extremism in schools and children's services
    Emailcounter.extremism@education.gov.uk

    Telephone020 7340 7264

    If you are concerned about extremism in a school or organisation that works with children, or if you think a child might be at risk of extremism, contact our helpline.

    Open Monday to Friday from 9am to 6pm (excluding bank holidays).
     
  13. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Which is why I included:
    The former has led to workplace murders by disgruntled or sacked workers (mainly in the US admittedly), and the latter has led to vigilantism and the hounding, attacking and even death of innocents. Those are actual things that have and do happen and not what someone may imagine might happen, however they don't seem to be covered by the Prevent programme.
     
    slingshotsally and Scintillant like this.
  14. markdbick

    markdbick New commenter

    I am a little wary of doing it straight away as hopefully this will be recognised as a big mistake and withdrawn with an apology, There are aspects of prevent that are very serious and important and I would not want to mess up that system. BUT if there is not a full withdrawal and apology by Monday then yes - that is one way, hopefully of getting the Government to realise how absurd this is. Hopefully it is just a mistake by some relatively junior people in one team.

    Preventing extremism in schools and children's services
    Emailcounter.extremism@education.gov.uk

    Telephone020 7340 7264

    If you are concerned about extremism in a school or organisation that works with children, or if you think a child might be at risk of extremism, contact our helpline.

    Open Monday to Friday from 9am to 6pm (excluding bank holidays).
     
  15. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Those murders are very different from what Prevent is aimed at though. I've never heard of sacked/disgruntled worker starting a movement and recruiting children to it. They are just crazies with a personal grudge.

    And anyway it's not really a UK issue, 'going postal' is a US phenomenon linked to the availability of guns.
     
    nomad likes this.
  16. markdbick

    markdbick New commenter

    One of the biggest risks from this is that the rest of the Prevent system is brought into disrepute and consequently serious issues, like you mention, not being reported. I have found the actual guidance online earlier this evening. It is titled "Safeguarding from Radicalisation Reference Guide" published by Counter Terrorism Policing South East. The document says it is " designed to help you recognise when young people or adults may be vulnerable to extreme or violent ideologies" The section about XR implies that people using the XR logo, involved in Non-violent direct action, participating in planned school "walk-outs" or attending NVDA training sessions etc. are a concern and should be reported. This is just daft!
     
  17. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    XR would never be considered eligible for Prevent by this government because so many XR members are die hard Tory voters.

    ..Ah, no, hang on a minute..
     
    slingshotsally likes this.
  18. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Maybe they should have waited until there was an actual threat of this...
     
  19. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    and most biology teachers, maybe us maths teachers need to get together and arrange to carry out some serious surveillance on the science department.......they could be covertly educating people in there..:eek:
     
    ajrowing and Scintillant like this.
  20. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    I was obliged to underake Prevent training early last year and have now been informed I need to do it again before the end of the month or I won't be compliant.

    I have to say that the training didn't impart wisdom I lacked when I left school and it was tedious to endure.

    I accept there are people who will be less streetwise than I was when I left school and are still gulible enought to both vote for Brexit and yet another Tory government, despite the fiasco the previous ones were, but surely it's an insult to those of us who can see a wrong 'un a mile off to be treated as such imbeciles that we have to repeated be told what to watch out for?

    It seems common sense no longer has a value unless a tick box has been ticked.
     
    Alice K, lanokia and ajrowing like this.

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