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ppa entitlements/ medical appointments

Discussion in 'Personal' started by abihancock, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Should your PPA time be used for medical appointments if the appointment has to be taken in school time? Or are you still entitled to PPA if you have an appointment?
     
  2. fantastischfish

    fantastischfish Established commenter

    I can't see any way in which one should expect to be compensated for using PPA time for an appointment.
    I had an appointment for an xray a few weeks ago and, to avoid costing the school money for supply, I arranged the appointment for during lunchtime when I knew I had a PPA immediately following; allowing me to leave at lunchtime, get to the appointment and return knowing I didn't have a lesson to rush back to.
    Silly question I feel. Sorry.
     
  3. lilachardy

    lilachardy Star commenter

    If your appointment falls in PPA time, you lose the PPA.
    If your appointment falls in lesson time, however, you lose the lesson - it's not the case that the school calls that your PPA time.
     
  4. fantastischfish

    fantastischfish Established commenter

    My apologies, I misread! If you mean that the school has adjusted your PPA time to fit in with when your appointment falls, yes that isn't fair.
    However, they can reserve the right to not pay you if it's a non-emergency appointment and it falls outside of the permissable quota for the year. So it may be better to adjust the PPA and still get paid if that's what they are planning.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    That's one of the downsides of teaching. In other jobs, you can take annual leave for appointments. I've never had to have an appointment whilst working at school so have no idea what "entitlement" there is - suppose it depends on your boss and the school. It does kind of suck considering how much work we do in the evenings, weekends and holidays outside of "directed time". A good boss would understand that - if you have a good boss.
     
  6. As I understand it, you are entitled to x number of hours (maybe 10 or so?) to attend appointments. However, if we book an appointment within the school day, we have to apply for a leave of absence and it is taken to the governors. We are asked if the appointment could have been taken out of school hours etc. As this is not always possible, I try to have my appointments in my PPA to cause less disruption to the rest of the school. I therefore miss my PPA but that's the way it is.
     
  7. fantastischfish

    fantastischfish Established commenter

    Things like dentists appointments can be easily taken outside of school hours, if it's just a check up. But things like xrays, scans, physio, fillings etc cannot always be arranged outside of school hours, especially if it's the sort of appointment you wait 6 weeks to get in the first place, then face a further month's wait if you try to re-arrange it. Schools have to be understanding of this. If it was another type of job, as someone has said, annual leave could be used, or flexi-time or similar. Or, the work would just wait on your desk for an hour and maybe you'd work a little bit late to get caught up or something. But unfortunately, children need someone to supervise them.
     
  8. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    Agreed that teaching isn't flexible regarding appointments.

    However:
    This isn't always as easy as it sounds. We're only allowed A/L if it doesn't inconvenience the project. If too many people are already booked out your appointment has to be rearranged. That applies to requests for time off in lieu too, which can be taken for half a day maximum: no good if you have an all day appointment. And of course as A/L isn't as much as all that, no one wants to use it for medical appointments if that can be avoided!
    Teaching certainly isn't the only job where that doesn't apply.. My clients would still have appointments I had to attend and their crises wouldn't wait.

    Yes, teaching's inflexible, but it isn't plain sailing in many other jobs either.


     
  9. Sounds so easy... 28 days annual leave in non-maintained school positions is typical - so given that teachers have 57 more days holiday a year (and tbh better t&c) to say that teachers in maintained schools are so hard done by really is galling, for those that genuinely do have very little holidays and ARE expected to do work outside of their 37 hour week... (Which interestingly is 5 hours per week longer than maintained teachers HAVE to be <u>at</u> work.....)
    TBH I would say that giving up some of PPA time for a medical appointment is pretty good going tbh...
     
  10. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    There is no general 'entitlement' - it may be the case that your school has this in its absence policy, but most schols do not and it's merely an expectation that (a) hospital appointments often cannot be changed (although increasingly they can, I've found in our area) and so heads allow the time off but (b) routine dentist and GP appointments should usually be arranged outside school hours.
     
  11. fantastischfish

    fantastischfish Established commenter

    I just KNEW I should have gone back and edited my post because I anticipated this response. I didn't, however, suggest that teaching was the ONLY inflexible job. Nor did I include ALL jobs in my remark that work could wait.
     
  12. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    Fair point: you didn't. [​IMG]

    However, just booking annual leave or time off in lieu is honestly not as easy as has been indicated by one or two people on this thread.
     
  13. emilystrange

    emilystrange Star commenter

    i doubt very much that i have all that much more holiday than most other people, once i've done my paperwork and planning. my bank holidays are in school holidays as well, which isn't the case for others. if you can have flexitime, that adds quite a lot on to days off. 28 days plus bank holidays is 6 weeks. i have about that - often on half term there is so much to do i end up with one day of it to myself.
    appointments can't always be made in holidays, especially when things can't be left that long. and hospital appointments - not easy either when gaps between them are specified.
     
  14. fantastischfish

    fantastischfish Established commenter

    I think that's fair enough. I always schedule routine appointments for the holidays. When I had laser eye surgery last year, I scheduled it for the start of the summer holidays knowing that my 24 hour, one week and one month check-ups would all fall within the summer break and require no time off. Since I was experiencing no problems, I delayed my 3 month checkup for a week so that it fell within the October half-term.
    My point: if someone has taken reasonable steps to ensure that their work isn't compromised by their appointment, it should be accepted that, sometimes, we can't control when the hospital sees us. A couple of years ago, I was receiving treatment from a dermatologist for severe adult acne. I was placed on medication that had to be closely monitored. The clinic in question only ran on Tuesdays, so I had no choice to have an appointment on that day - although I always tried to book it so it coincided with a PPA thus causing the least disruption I could. Some bitched and moaned that it was unnecessary treatment etc, but I don't see why I should have had to struggle on just so that I didn't have to take a day off work. It's about give and take. So long as someone is doing everything they can to avoid inconveniencing others, I think schools should be sympathetic. After all, we don't choose to be ill and we don't choose when doctor etc hold clinics/lenth of waiting lists/times of appointments.
     
  15. fantastischfish

    fantastischfish Established commenter

    No it's not, absolutely!
    Consistency is the key, and fairness. Treat everyone as if they are human. That's usually a good starting point.
     
  16. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    I agree.
    No, I don't see why you should have had to either. Your colleagues sound horrible.
    Absolutely.




     
  17. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    You spend about 7 weeks (excluding bank holidays) working? If you do, I don't think you're typical.
    Also, do you think other professionals don't work at home?

    I absolutely accept that appointments can't always be taken during school holidays (see my post to Eva) but the holidays are generous compared to those of the general public.
     
  18. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    Cross posted there. I couldn't agree more.
     
  19. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    The statutory minimum is 5.6 weeks including bank holidays:

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10029788
     
  20. I think some people must be very lucky if they have dentists who are available for appointments for major dental work outside schools hours in term time, or they must be very lucky to have a school day that finishes early. There is no way I can get appointments for major dental work like root canal surgery (which requires a number of very long appointments) outside school hours in term time, and its often not possible to get it all done in vacations due to waiting lists, the denist being on holiday too etc. Management seam to think that dentists open on saturdays and late evenings, well the NHS ones don't around here.
     

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