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PPA and Compassionate leave

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by christywhite750, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. christywhite750

    christywhite750 New commenter

    Hello. I'm just wondering if anyone could shed some light on PPA entitlement and compassionate leave.
    I recently lost my nan and was by her bedside every evening for a week while we waited. I took 2 days during that week and didn't get any PPA time which is understandable. However, today is the funeral and I have not had any PPA yet this week and nothing has been said about having it on Friday. I'm unsure whether PPA is taken from me this week as I have requested a compassionate day.

    A colleague of mine has had quite a bit of time off lately due to her OH being quite poorly, but she still gets her PPA time. One week she had her PPA time as normal on the Wednesday and then was off on the Thursday and Friday. When my nan passed away on the Monday and I took time off on the Tuesday (although I was messaged to ask where I was) I still didn't get my PPA time that week either.
    Any advice?
  2. Skeoch

    Skeoch Lead commenter

    Discuss with your line manager, explain the issue, ask what is possible. If you can, have some solutions thought out in advance.
  3. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    I always thought (although I'm not aware of any rules) that if you lost PPA because you were off ill, that was just bad luck, and I would have thought compassionate leave would be similar. It gets very complicated if every time a teacher is off they have to reschedule PPA (fair enough for courses, though, since they're known in advance).

    I'd be inclined, rather than going down the entitlement route, to go to your line manager, explain that because you lost all your evenings last week and your PPA as well, you're struggling to get everything done. Is there any chance that some time could be found for you? If you have any practical suggestions of where that time could be found, make them - for instance if classes are watching the year 6 production, or something like that, perhps you could have that time then.
  4. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Are you being paid for the compassionate leave? They don't have to pay you by law, so it does seem reasonable that they don't then have to pay for more supply to cover your moved PPA. But the idea of trying to find a solution that gives you a bit of PPA time is a good one.
  5. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I've never heard of anyone getting PPA back if they have missed it through being off
    border_walker likes this.
  6. paulstevenjones

    paulstevenjones New commenter

    I think there is a perceived difference between a grandparent dying (sad but expected in life) and an unwell partner so perhaps more slack is given there.
    DYNAMO67 likes this.
  7. Kangarew

    Kangarew New commenter

    I have a similar query regarding compassionate leave and loss of PPA.

    Last term I had 4 weeks off work due to torn ligaments in my foot - granted this was not an ideal start to the year, however I sent all lesson plans and resources for the supply teacher covering my class during this whole 4 weeks.

    Moving forward to this week, it is half-term for me. Sadly my Grandad passed away on Saturday and his funeral is next Wednesday, when I am back at school. I have message my head and requested the day as compassionate leave (just one day...which is more than reasonable considering the funeral is 500 miles away and I will need to fly there and back in 1 day). I did acknowledge that it wasn't great timing given that I have already had an extended period of absence during Term 1 and pointed out that I was only requesting 1 day (rather than 2 days I took when my Gran (also 500 miles away) passed away in February).

    Now... my PPA is normally on a Thursday. My head has said I can have the Wednesday off, but I must take the afternoon as my PPA for that week. Given that she knows I will be travelling all day, I feel this could be a little unfair. Are there any restrictions on withholding PPA time for compassionate leave?
  8. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    I think you are incredibly lucky you have got any time at all, there is no requirement to be given compassionate leave for a grandparents, and in our school, thats certainly been turned down flat.
    Piranha and border_walker like this.
  9. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I doubt if compassionate leave for grandparents is anything other than discretionary. If this is the case, the school is entitled to set conditions such as this, and it is up to you whether you want to take the leave under these conditions.
    DYNAMO67 and border_walker like this.
  10. shevington

    shevington Occasional commenter

    If you are not happy with anything, then you decide whether at future date you give your free time and good will to your school.
    DYNAMO67 likes this.
  11. maggie m

    maggie m Senior commenter

    I had a day of compassonate leave this week. Mr M had to have tests on his heart and was in a state of melt down. It was granted on condition I got others in my department to teach my exam classes rather than simply set cover. Seemed fair to me. My colleagues were happy to help out.
    Piranha likes this.
  12. smurphy6

    smurphy6 Senior commenter

    I think that any HT who refuses an employee leave to go to their grandparent’s funeral is awful. Teaching is a JOB.

    Missing a relative’s funeral is something you would have to live with for the rest of your life. Imagine how your other family members would view it - he/she went to work instead of the funeral.

    I would tell my HT and if leave was refused I would go anyway.

    Teaching is a JOB - an important and worthwhile job - but a JOB just the same.

    This shocks me.
  13. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    I agree, I was in the past refused permission to attend my father's wedding. He was terminally ill at the time, and the wedding was arranged in a hurry, and ended up being on a school day. I was told I couldn't go, and I didn't go, and have always regretted it. He died a few weeks later. That school is now 4 jobs ago, and I can't believe I took the job so seriously that I missed my father's wedding for it.
  14. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    But the OP isn't being prevented from attending the funeral. The are just being given conditions they don't like, but I think they are lucky, VERY lucky to be given permission to go at all. Even though, I would advocate going without permission, if that is what it came to
    DYNAMO67, Piranha and colacao17 like this.
  15. colacao17

    colacao17 New commenter

    Definitely. You don't get another chance.
  16. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    I think given the context of your absence already, this being the first week of a new half term also, it is reasonable from the HT. especially if they’re paying you. This is the deal breaker for me. If the answer is ‘no’ then I think the reasonability of taking PPA as well changes significantly.

    It also should be noted that they were clearly very accommodating in the past, and that the school really shouldn’t be expected to make extra allowance really because you opt to work so far away from your family. You are experiencing one of the downsides here, sorry.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  17. sparklepig2002

    sparklepig2002 Star commenter

    @Kangarew You've been given the day off for the funeral. Be grateful. You shouldn't expect PPA on top of that.I would be saying thank you to your head, not accusing them of being unfair. Sorry for your loss.

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