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PPA allowance...please help me i'm confused

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by GemsEYFS, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. GemsEYFS

    GemsEYFS New commenter

    Hi all,
    I know PPA is 10% of teaching time. Is this the same for a teacher who has a class of 30, and the teacher who has a class of 45 in the same school?
    Even though the teacher of 30 has 30 assessments to do, and the teacher of 45 has 45 assessments to do? And more individual plans/ differentiation etc?? For the same pay?

    your advice greatly needed please.
    xx
     
  2. becktonboy

    becktonboy New commenter

    ...it's not an allowance, it's definitely an entitlement.

    As to your query: PPA is 10% of your timetabled teaching time: would I be right in thinking you are a Nursery teacher working with TA/NN support? in which case they should be assisting you in your P and A if not your P, which would be the same for 30 or 45? if you are working an extended day then your teaching hours are possibly longer than others and your PPA will be commensurately longer, with no playtimes discounted that would give you even more PPA than your colleagues.
    If you are working in Primary or Secondary with a class of 45, move school.
     
  3. GemsEYFS

    GemsEYFS New commenter

    Thank you for your reply

    Yes, i am in Nursery with 3 TA's and me.I need to work out my exact 'teaching time', as you say no breaks in eyfs! But i do all FINAL assessments. TA do help with leanring journeys. As for planning. Its not the same as a class of 30, as there you are 1 teacher with one group. In Nursery, i have 4 different key groutps, whcih are are doinf differenciated Letters and sounds. Plus, more interventions and IEP's to write (8 SEN children) and onloy 2 hours PPA? Does not seem fair.

    Every other year grop has a 'co' teacher. Rec have 2 teachers, KS1 plan togtehr and then KS2 One does literacy plan, one room plan, one does letters and sounds etc. So work load is always split.... but me.... OH NO. Its just me and only 2 hours to do so!!
     
  4. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    I don't think it's quite as different as you make out! yes, there may be one teacher in a KS2 class, but I personally still have 4 differentiated groups for maths and literacy working on different activities and objectives, I plan for interventions for 2 maths, 2 literacy, 1 phonics, 2 speech and language groups and 1 nurture group, I have 6 SEN children with IEP's to write, and extended writing for my class takes roughly 3 hours a week to mark-have you any idea how much Year 5/6 children can produce in 45 minutes! ( and as we have 1 teacher per year group, there is no team planning either!) EYFS is VERY hard work ( I know, I used to teach Reception) but so is KS1 and KS2 ( and you have 3 TA's to help!) I'm sure your KS1 and 2 teachers have their own problems and demands, Each year group has its own requirements and rewards. You certainly sound as if you are due more PPA time-2 hours doesn't sound right to me- but I suggest you approach this from the "hours worked" angle, rather than the "I work harder than anyone else" one,
     
  5. GemsEYFS

    GemsEYFS New commenter

    My post was in NO WAY a ' I work harder then anyone esle', not in the slightest. I know how hard EVERY teacher works. I have worked accross the board. No where in my post did i say anything to this tune!
    I SAID...
    That each year group IN MY SCHOOL teams plans. year1 and 2 teachers plan together, year 3 and 4 and then year 5+6. Sharing all 'topic' planning, resourcing etc between the 2. As does my 2 rec teachers. Shared accross the 2. MY post stated that in Nursery, there is no Sharing teacher to plan with.

    It was a question relating to timings.
     
  6. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Sorry, but that's not the way it comes across! You need to look at the hours you work and that alone affects the amount of PPA time you are entitled to, not how much shared planning can be done by others, nor the number of children in your class. It might seem unfair, but that's how the system works and that's what you need to tackle!
     
  7. PPA time allocation is not at all connected to what you do in your working time, nor what anyone else in your school does in theirs. The entitlement is a minimum of 10 of your timetabled teaching time. ie the times you are in class working with children. You don't count breaks, lunchtime or times when all your children are in assembly.
    EYFS can be slightly difficult to calculate because not all your children might go to assembly, you might not have a scheduled morning break like teachers in KS2. But, try and work it out. If it is not close to what you get now go see your line manager and discuss it with them.
     
  8. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It's not relevant to PPA time but do you have 45 children in the morning and 45 in the afternoon or are the 45 children split between the two sessions?
    There is no expectation that you will complete all your planning, preparation and assessment during the PPA time. Before PPA time, it was something that was partly done in free periods (secondary) and mainly out of school hours (not Directed Time hours).
    I'm assuming that Nursery sessions are 3 hours long. That makes 30 hours per week. If you are timetabled to be int he classroom for 28 of those hours, with 2 PPA hours, you are being short-changed and should tall up the missing time (48 minutes in my example) and periodically arrange with your Head when they will be taken.
    Or, you could re-jig the schedule. In the classroom for 27 hours gives you 2.7 hours PPA per week and gets close to the 30 hour total. As you have missed out on a weekly basis since September, I'd suggest that you get one 3hour session per week for PPA from now on to make things quits by the end of the school year. Actually, they'd still owe you some time as 15 weeks of 48 minutes missed is 720 minutes owed to you at present. 23 weeks of getting an extra 18 minutes per week (3 hours instead of 2.7 hours PPA) gives you back 414 of those lost PPA minutes. You could request the missing 306 minutes as 5 one hour slots from time to time or as almost 2 complete sessions.
    Back to your original point about the numbers of children. Surely there is lesss to mark with Nursery age children so the assessment load is reduced. Also you have more assistants than teachers with older children and a lot of the activities don't require intricate planning as the children have free-play don't they, with 10 or 15 minute slots per session of a teacher-led activity?
     
  9. becktonboy

    becktonboy New commenter

    oooohhh, dangerous ground, jubilee, I'm going to stand over there for a while............
     
  10. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    At least I tried to say BOTH age groups were as difficult and time consuming as each other[​IMG]
     
  11. marymoocow

    marymoocow Star commenter


    You are not getting 10% as you dont have playtimes or assemblies. I teach 5 x 3 hr morning sessions and I either have 1.5hrs per week or double them for a full morning every 2 weeks. You should be getting 3 hrs a week assuming you are doing 6 hours a day. Also if you have 45 in a session, you should have 2 teachers.
    I won't rise to the bait about planning. Just say swings and roundabouts![​IMG]
     
  12. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    If it's different children morning and afternoon, as I'm sure it is, the teacher does the main planning for one session and repeats it for the next.
    Further up the school they have to plan for classes staying all day and doimng different work in the afternoon.
    I speak as the relative of a nursery teacher who definitely uses the same planning twice per day, with slight variations for special cases.
     
  13. oooooooooooooh! Not quite the point.
    The assessment regime in EYFS (if being carried out properly) is very time consuming indeed. Apart from that working with a bunch of 3,4 &5 yearolds is extremely exhausting. I tried it for 6 months once. It nearly did for me! Give me Y6 any day of the week.
     
  14. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Horses for courses! (speaking from experience, having taught every year group from Reception to Year 6-including a R/1/2 class and a 3/4/5/6 one!) But however time-consuming/pressured/exhausting any particular year group is, PPA is still only based on the hours worked, not what you have to do in them!
     
  15. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    If you have 45 full time children, you should have 2 full time teachers!
     
  16. GemsEYFS

    GemsEYFS New commenter

    Its only reccommended. i wish i did! But, i do have 3 ta's.
    would LOVE another teacher with me!
     
  17. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Sorry, confused you with a Reception class!
     

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