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Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by sniffybear, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. Just out of interest, Sniffy Bear, what subject do you teach?
  2. eha


    '.....we have noticed the gradual deterioration in the behaviour of the class and have put a system in place to halt the decline...'

    Do you have an explanation for the deterioration? New disruptive kids in the class? A change of routine? Why does this happen in some classes?

  3. Ok Sniffy - I apologize for rant - but at least my ranting helped you see that what was said to you is clearly rubbish - everyone has areas to improve and you should have been supported in your efforts.
  4. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    I think i was in a similer position to you Sniffy in my first teaching post. At the school i was at really wasn't settling in fully and it didn't help that i had massive issues with behaviour with a good number of my groups, and i'm also dyslexic. I left the school of my own violition, possibly before i had the same situation as yours arise and when i left my confidence was in tatters.

    One of the things i did to rebuild my confidence was to get into supply teaching, and it did. I've also got a long term supply job at one school and i'm finishing my NQT there, so far things are going well. Yes i still have troublesome classes and i'm paranoid about behaviour management some days, but my HoD knows how it went in the other school and i'm doing my best to follow school policy and chatting with him about issues so i'm doing everthing i should be, it's accepted that i have some difficult groups.

    Sign up with some supply agencies sniffy, i'd also go with telling them that your an NQT and had to leave your first school because it wasn't going well. I did when i signed up and i was lucky and had an understanding office manager with one of them. You'll need to give the school as a reference but also go in able to give them names of people (possibly one from the school that knows you were trying your best) that will give you good references. I gave my agency 4, two from people i used for references on my PGCE and two from school; one of the references was bad but the rest were good, and although i don't know the specifics the office manager said she's only ever heard good things back about me. Which ties in with me having been working pretty much every day of last term, and the days i didn't work was because i didn't want to (and in some cases i was stil being called with an offer of work!).

    I'd also recomend that you check out www.beingdyslexic.co.uk I'm a member there and everyone there is supportive so if you've had a bad day you can get reminded that your not the only person out there that struggles with dyslexia. There are also a few dyslexic teachers that post on there so we can share our grumbles about that too.

    Just remember to do like you'd have done with a set back when studying, roll with it then come back fighting!
  5. Firstly you need to define your terms. What, in your opinion, is a 'good' teacher? From your opening post it appears to be one who has no problems with behaviour. If that is your sole criterion it's hardly evidence of good teaching practice.
  6. Orlandew, in a formal sense you are quite right and I overstated the case. De jure, there is no particular numerical limit. De facto, there is: if a school loses a chunk of its budget for each excluded child, then that fact is going to influence senior managers on exclusion decisions (is this what you meant by weakness amongst SMTs?). The abandonment of targets in this area, however, is a fairly new development, and up until recently schools were criticised if they excluded more than a tiny fraction of one percent of their total populations. In this, and the wider senses of embracing social exclusion philosophy whilst failing to provide enough referral centres for the persistently troublesome, the government is culpable.
  7. Eha, sorry, the refererence to "apprenticeship" was an exercise in self-mockery--I'd butchered the spelling of it in a previous post.

    The isolation concept can attract parental complaint, but if it is well publicised, clearly explained to parents and students and presented as an inducement to behavioural reform rather than as a form of punishment, it generally helps to moderate whole-school behaviour without enormous "grief" from parents.

  8. Hookie, absolutely on the money! I had composed a long response, but lost the bloomin' thing. Basically, too much fear is holding back rightful protest, a fear of the inspection system, a fear to be seen as out of line, a fear to question the absurd. In an age where behaviour is so poor, it is illogical to impose so much paperwork on staff who are feeling measurable physical and psychological health effects. Britain may have one of the world´s biggest economies, but international surveys rate it as about the worst developed country in which to raise a child and we are well down the list of nations in terms of quality of life. Ergo,
    Britain is one of the worst places to teach.

    Time for the state to get off our backs, tidy up the popular culture, provide incentives for families to stay together and for heaven's sake, look at the interconnections between male delinquency and an economy that offers office jobs but little in the way of manufacturing.

    I hope that this is seen as more than just a rant, but as I said, I lost my better developed piece...
  9. Howdy Scilady...."eminently sensible," you obviously don't know me!

    Agree on your last couple of points, but the reference to "grammar school concoction" was made in respect of the subjects included in the NC, not the ability level that was targetted. I hope that clears up any confusion I may have (inadevertently) brought to the debate.

    The original article by SB may have stemmed from an obscure mix of motives, but it seems to be producing a lot of responses that lament the various circumstances that surround and confound the teaching profession. True, also, the observation that monstrously deformed behaviour patterns are not the sole preserve of the underclass, the middle-class "little prince/princess" example caused my adrenal gland to go into overdrive! And to those who emphasise the importance of being undermined by others, too darn right, it's a rotten old world with some pretty spiteful harridans and ogres in positions of authority.

    The main problem, of course, is societal in scope...

  10. Poor Behaviour does not equal Weak Teacher but, Weak Teacher may equal Poor Behaviour. One possible way of determining the truth of this hypothesis would be for teachers to change schools for a period of a week every year. For example, a teacher in a school where behaviour is always good could change places with a teacher in the area where behaviour is, perhaps, challenging. We could then see whether the pupil behaviour altered as a consequence of changing the teacher. It would also be a good method of CPD rather than attending coursss on Behaviour Management,.
  11. Mooney what area are you in and what agency did you sogn up with? I need to get my QTS but with the experiences I've had I doubt that any school wopuld give me a go. If I could get it by doing Supply I would be very glad. My email address is tasmanianlily@gmail.com

  12. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    I sent you a PM tasmainianlily
  13. Earlier in the thread there was an interesting discussion about the latest alledged wheeze from LA's to stop schools permanently excluding naughty children - the fine. The penalties appear to be in the region of £2-5000 per child.

    I am no longer convinced that economics is a viable excuse for keeping naughty children in school. My school is graced with the presence of a most delightful thug whom all of the staff would dearly like to see the back of. My initial assumption was that exclusion was not viable because the school could not afford the £2000 fine.

    I have recently found out that some staff members are attending regular multi agency meetings about said thug that last the best part of two hours a time. The alarm bells are now ringing. 10-15 people meeting for two hours, assuming 10 are paid at a rate of £10 per hour that is £200 down the toilet straight away.
  14. Hi DrHyde,
    I have just arrived in this forum and would like to say that your comment was greatly needed. It was very well expressed. Well, thats all from me!
    Thanks for having taken the time to write it.

  15. baitranger

    baitranger Senior commenter

    I agree with all of your comments DrHyde. I can only add that it's going to get worse before ( and perhaps if) it gets better because of the current economic downturn.

  16. baitranger

    baitranger Senior commenter

    Making it difficult to exclude badly behaved children is a symptom of a system under severe stress : it's merely an attempt to keep a lid on things, to contain the ugly behaviour in schools and to attempt to classify as an "educational" problem that should be solved by teachers.The truth is that it's got far deeper roots , as explained so well by DrHyde in his posts on this forum.

    In the same way, the continual erosion of standards of numeracy and literacy and the gross inflation in qualifications reflects an inability to cope with the reality of very low levels of ability.

    I'm sure that many readers will know about the work done at Durham University on falling standards in A level and GCSE : we seem to be heading in the American direction.


    "Noting a “national tendency
    to graduate anyone who occupies a desk long enough” the journalist Jonathan
    Maslow quotes a woman in Jackson , Mississippi , who told him : “ I went through
    twelve years of school and two years of community college without ever learning
    to read , and passed with flying colours ."
    From Bill Bryson.
  17. Hi there! I work for a charity called Stand Against Violence which aims to combat mindless violence on the streets. We have some useful content on our website that we think will create a really engaging and insightful PSHE lesson for your students. Please take a quick look and let me know what you think.
    Many thanks!
    Lauren x
  18. I 1999 I developed a Behaviour Learning Programme as part of a Special Educational Needs provision in a mainstream secondary school in West Belfast. The programme focused on developing skills that the pupil needed in order to become motivated in class and therefore become an effective learner. What had become apparent was that a significant number of pupils were being disruptive because they did not know what appropriate behaviour was within a classroom environment. They had not learnt the social skills that are needed. They had not learnt the survival skills. As teachers we expect pupils to have already learned these skills in the way we had, in the home environment, but for many that is not the case. In the book " The Behaviour Learning programme " published by Optimus Education I have shown how this programme evolved in to a skills based learning programme that involved parents and a whole school approach.
  19. angrypixie

    angrypixie New commenter

    I can't believe what the OP said! Firstly, I am a good teacher but some kids don't want to be taught and just because I'm not a terrifying specimen of a human being does not mean that I should not be in the classroom. Secondly, I am a good teacher because I care. I care when other students can't learn because others don't behave, and I care that I can't motivate them enough to care even with an all-singing, all-dancing lesson. Thirdly, common respect and human decency are things we should see in any profession and if the students can't offer that then something has gone wrong with their parenting. We should all be able to go to work and be able to teach. Full stop.
  20. angrypixie

    angrypixie New commenter

    It's a poor state we're in if we have to educate parents to parent. You're right - we do, but we shouldn't have to. It's common sense. My parents were uneducated but I was taught right from wrong and that included showing respect to my teachers. My children aren't perfect, but they know what to do and what not to do in a classroom. They know how to treat other human beings. They knew this before they even started school because we taught them and it wasn't difficult.

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