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Poor behaviour in Y2.

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by anon3150, Mar 21, 2011.

  1. I enlisted the help of the ht. Apparetly I can send them to another teacher if they continue causing problems post red spot. She also said to give up on the idea of removing them from the carpet.
    On a related note apparently some of the parents have rung up to say that I'm 'too scary'. I know I was a bit shouty last week, I was just so stressed. Hopefully plugging away with the behaviour system will reap rewards in the end. The ht's been constructive about it so think I've got her support.

  2. The other way that sometimes works is rewarding the others who point blank refuse to become involved/respond to the silliness. Let them earn extra privledges that work for you, sometimes using their peer pressure if all lose a treat is mean but can hold more meaning if their friends are no longer entertained by their performance. This of course depends on how well they are bonded with their class.
    Would their parents back you if you started an on task/behaviour card feedback system to them? Good luck with cracking one nut at a time.
  3. Hi,

    Do not worry too much about the parents. It is good you have the ht's support as well. Sending them to a different class (older class can be intimidating) works wonders with some children because you remove the pleasure of performing for an audience!

    It seems you have tried lots of strategies. With "persistent offenders" it is always hard finding what makes them tick. It is bad enough to have one child like this but having a group of them can be stressful to say the least. Split them up and sit them with different children on the carpet, someone sensible who will not copy what they do. Then try to change tactics and see what works with each individual.

    Who is the worst offender from them? Probably one child is the "leader" who initiates the disruption and the others follow his behaviour. Target him but in a nice way. Does he respond to praise at all? If yes, "catch him while he is doing something good and give him positive attention" or give him responsibility for something to show him he can contribute to the whole class. If you can establish a positive link between him and you the others will follow suit. Maybe this can break the cycle of negative behaviour-sanctions which they are so used to and do not care about any more. This is really hard, I used to have a class like this and at the end of each day I had to go home and try to find at least something I liked about each of these children in order to make me carry on. It was a real challenge... It helps to find at least something you like in each of these children otherwise they can easily wind you up the wrong way.

    Just remember not to take things personally - easier said than done - and keep calm. I bet every teacher has had a year like the one you have now. It makes you wiser at the end.

  4. Just a correction. When I wrote "do not worry about the parents" I meant the ones who rang to say you are scary. I agree with Rebeccad1's suggestion to let the troublemakers' parents know about their children's behaviour. If you can work together it will make at least some of the disruptive children think twice before they get silly.
  5. If you have persistant offenders you could try to make sure that during their timeout you engage the rest of the class in an activity that you know they would enjoy. They may not be bothered about missing out on a carpet time story but if they missed out on a more exciting interactive whiteboard game for example they might think twice about misbehaving.
    Also the peer pressure option that others have mentioned can work well. If you dangle the carrot, and say that if no-one is moved on to Red today then we are going to do 'x' at the end of the day and think up activities that you know the majority of the class will enjoy. If everyday the same children are ruining things for the rest of the class they will soon start to put the pressure on rather than sit back with amusement at their antics. Also by doing something small everyday it's more tangiable than golden time at the end of the week.
    In general it may be worth considering shifting your planning a bit for the class if a high percentage of them are misbehaving on the carpet for example. You may find that this group respond better to more hands on activities and while you are trying to gain some control it may be easier to adapt the planning for a while and establish some good behaviour patterns while they are fully engaged.

  6. <font size="4">I'm so glad other people are having the same problems. I have a P5 class with six children who have individual needs. One has anger issues and two have ADHD, one of which refuses to be medicated. I feel like I'm whacking rats all day just to get them to sit down and listen for a little while. They totally do not care about any sanctions and gladly give up their golden time on Fridays. They are mostly attention seeking and see staying in the classroom with a teacher as a good thing. There is also some bravado about taking their punishment like a man. It is very exhausting and I have tried all sorts of different approaches none of which appear to work consistently.</font><font size="4">The nice pupils are beginning to be affected as the poor behaviour is rubbing off on them or they are board because I have to keep stopping the lessons to deal with behaviour issues. Two pupils have started questioning the teachers&rsquo; authority in the classroom. I feel demeaned and angry about the whole situation. This constant struggle is wearing me down. </font><font size="4">I had a behaviour review with management today and was basically told I had to get the class under control. I was advised to assert my authority in the classroom but not shout as the children don't like that. I am a NQT and 4 other teachers have failed to get them under control. Last year the class were in a closed classroom and this year I have an open plan one. The teacher who had them last year is taking early retirement as she could not face another year with this class. I feel I am being asked to wave a magic wand which doesn't exist.</font><font size="4">Any advice would be appreciated, meanwhile my condolences to anyone in the same boat.</font>
  7. Instead of missing play time, have you tried going late to lunch? My Year 2's really don't like this. Also building up the amount of minutes lost as increasing tallies seems to impact visually on mine and then you have the opportunity of rubbing out the tallies for good behaviour and giving the reason why the behaviour was good.
    Also, is there one child which the other children feed off? If so, that is the one that you need to target and prevent from influencing the others. Perhaps instead of sending off the carpet, your TA could remove the child from the room and only return when behaviour is acceptable.
    We also had one child who found it very difficult to sit amongst children on the carpet without playing up or setting off others so he always sat at his desk which was immediately next to the carpet but behind so he couldn't catch other children's eyes. We made sure there was a visual timetable and we also did social stories which dealt with the times of the day that particularly kept going wrong. We ignored all his comments and shouting out until he did something which conformed and then he was noticed and included - no big deal was made of the fact that he did conform.
    Also special places on the carpet are a great help.
  8. Having taught for over 20 years, and being a parent of two teenagers, I would never recommend whole class punishments: they are unfair to those who do behave, and send out a message that there is no point behaving well as you get punished anyway. Even the most hard-core primary school pupils tend to behave if they respect/like the teacher, so spending some positive time on a one:eek:ne usually builds up a relationship so they don't want to disappoint you. Children need to feel that it's more important not to disappoint you than it is to entertain their friends. Greet all the little so-and-so's as they enter the class with something positive e.g. 'You're looking smart today' or 'Can you do me a favour and take this letter to the office?' Everyone likes to be important.

  9. I have only recently taken over a year 5 class and there are several children (7 in fact) who are persistently disrupting the rest of the class. I have tried a variety of rewards and sanctions. My most effective are to give children who are behaving well important tasks - e.g. taking register (it's amazing how the most naughty ones behave like the teacher - telling others to be quiet and listen!), they go on jobs, explain tasks to the rest of the class and are chosen to be my assistant teachers during the lesson. This seems to be working (most days) and we have a score out of ten at the end of each day - with a whole class reward if we ever get to 10. If they are a class that likes competition perhaps split the naughty ones onto different tabbles and give points to the best behaved. Good luck x
  10. Thanks everyone for the replies.
    I think I've got most strategies on the go. We have marbles in the jar for earning golden time. I really like this suggestion as well though. Maybe something whiteboard related? Another thing to think about but probably worth it if it saves some pain in the long run. I've actually had a better couple of days so maybe making some progress.
    Good luck everyone!

  11. All these replies could be me! My year 2/3 class are awful! There's only 19 of them but 12 are fidgity, jumpy, shouting-out, mucking around, don't-care types! I'm going mad trying to get them to sit still just so I can let them know what to do and then spend every lesson running from table to table explaining things again because they just didn't listen the first time. I really hope my HT signs off my NQT year in 2 weeks - if she doesn't I will cry! Arrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!
    All these tips are really helpful - thanks everyone =)
  12. After reading all these comments i realise how lucky I am to work with wonderful children who respect you and want to learn.
  13. It saddens me so much to read all these accounts. I taught for nearly 30 years and still do supply teaching and there are days when I struggle and wonder if I've lost the knack. To think in a much broader way, I always say that children behave in a certain way beacause they are trying to tell us something. They do not choose to be continually nagged and lose playtime. They do it because they lack confidence and self esteem. They have learnt over time that they can't do things and so its easier to waste time than try and listen. The answer is in all of the comments "sitting still" "sitting on the carpet" "paying attention"...... They are telling us that they can't sit still and they can't pay attention. I can't sit still on a hard floor, I can never get comfortable. Why don't you ask children to "gather round" and see where they choose to go. The hardest thing to do on a bicycle is to be still and its the same for many children, especially boys. They find it easier to be in motion to keep their balance and their concentration. Read the work of Sally Goddard-Blyth.
    Secondly a curriculum that is forced upon children does not always interest them. Try having sessions where the children choose how to learn and work. You say what you want them to learn eg how the Romans lived, and get them to say what they want to know and how they are going to find out. Rather than planning months in advance, you could plan weekly with the children. If you give children choice they are far more likely to want to be involved. As one contributor said, remember boys are kinaesthetic learners, they need to be hands on. Obviously this can't apply to everything, but some choice is better than none at all.
    Some of this may not be possible and that's the fault of our whole education system which is geared towards girls who are willing to conform. I am a Mum of 2 boys and if I ran my own school it would nothing like the ones they attended! We are losing great NQTs because they are feeling defeated before they've even had a chance. Good luck.
  14. I must say it was encouraging to read all these messages as I know that as teachers you are concerned with your students' development. I was on the other side of the issue as a parent to a child (6 yrs old) that failed to conform to his school's discipline system. His teacher has a traffic light system (red, yellow and green). I agree with this system but I would allow children to be able to work back to a green assuming they modify the offending behavior. This was not the case iin his school. My son got to school every day and proceeded to scream and cry because he did not want to go in his homeroom. Evey Day! The school requested that we sought the advice of a psychologist, and we did. She concluded there was nothing wrong w him. After a specially hard day (1 hr of crying and his refusal to work at all in his room), the psych went for a school visit w him. What she found was a negative reinforcement syst and a std of conduct that failed to motivate my son. He was expected to work quickly to finish his work and then rest his head on bis desk until everyone was done, also no talking or moving was allowed. The reward system was meaningless, since he never qualified b/c he was either on red or yellow light. His teacher sent him to another room everytime he did not comply with the rules. This created a phobia and so he refused to leave his classroom unless all his ckassmates went as well. Of course he was also punished for this and sent (screqming) to the principal's office. After a few months of tjis and much frustration we withdrew himmfrom this school and started homeschooling. This was the best decision. We are now working hard on re-building his confidence (he became very insecure and felt like a failure b/c he couldn't be on green light, therefore he was a bad boy). Teachers have the power to build up or put down, so be careful how you use your influence. Also, i learned that you get better resuls with strong willed children when you work hard on building a loving relationship with the child and he trusts you. Otherwise all they see is a power struggle, which these types of children loooove to engage. Finally I have found that most of my son's issues in school had to do with boredom and a school that appealed only to auditory learners and he is a kinesthetic learner (he learns best when allowed to move and explore with all his senses. We found out he is gifted in Math, reading and science and so we are encouraging him to move ahead in those subjects, while working at grade level on the rest. He has a rewards system where e picks his prize from a "treasure box". Also he get lots of praise for completing any special or extra credit projects. Now he wants to present his projects to every visitor! God bless you and give you strength to press on!
  15. marniott

    marniott New commenter

    "Teachers have the power to build up or put down, so be careful how you use your influence. Also, i learned that you get better resuls with strong willed children when you work hard on building a loving relationship with the child and he trusts you."

    Great posting - I would however question your comment about "a loving relationship" I do build strong positive relationships with all of my children (even the little horrors!) but I wouldn't say it is a "loving" relationship. You are absolutely right when you say teachers have a lot of power to influence children strongly - using the techniques mentioned above I feel you can influence children in a positive way. Apologies if I have misunderstood your intention here.

    My main way of dealing with problems is a 3 warning system (it works for me). 1st time - I will point out what I EXPECT them to be doing, 2nd time - I will do the same but tell them there will be a consequence if I have to tell them again, 3rd - the consequence. It may seem very strict but it works for my class - they are a very tough Y5 class...a lot of very rowdy boys!!

    The "worst" sanction - they hate it - is to eat their dinner with me!! I walk down to the dinner hall with them and pick up their tray, we walk all the way back to my room and sit and eat our dinner together (always with another staff member nearby and the door open). I do not speak to them at all. After we have finished eating I will then talk to them about their behaviour. I find that getting them to think about who their behaviour affects really works. At the beginning I had a few regulars for dinner but now it is only on rare ocassions.
  16. We use assertive discipline in our school and the children have to take responsibility for their own behaviour. Much the same as you, we go through a sequence of sanctions i.e. initials on the board first. They then know they are in trouble and you haven't had to stop teaching and speak to them, then a mark by the name which means 5 minutes 'out' if they continue to behave badly.Next is removal to another class and they have to tell that teacher why they are being removed . If they get 3 marks by their initials they then have to phone home and tell the parents why! Even the most hardened hate doing this and we rarely get that far. The whole idea is they sign up to a code of conduct drawn up by them with their class teacher each term. If they choose to break the agreed rules then they have chosen the sanction. Of course we have reward systems too and golden time etc. We have codes of conduct all around the school. Peer mentors and Play Leaders who also help the system at break times and we try to catvch the 'children beyond' being good!!
    We also have behaviour reports for both in class and outside. I am 'Behaviour manager' and if I get 3 of these in a short space of time then I take the child out of class and speak to them about why their behavbiour is deteriorating. I will sometimes call the parents in too.
    I hope this helps. It is so demoralising and time consuming working with disruptive children who don't seem to care.
    Good luck.
  17. Hi there - it sounds absolute, literal hell.

    No great solution , just some thoughts:
    Any possibility of getting parents to "sit in" on a class?
    I know in America this has has some success - the school decides on a policy whereby if a child misbehaves to such an extent that no methods are effective, then a parent must sit in on one hour of class next to the child - also not allowed to comment or interact.

    The parent is forced into taking responsibility back and the child hates the fact that the "safe" school world has been broken.

    Can't say that I have any personal bright ideas, though, my normal strategy, though time-consuming seems to worK:

    1. Message to parents child behaviour not acceptable - signature
    2. child behaviour not improved: immediate phone call to parent
    3. parent asked to discuss issue with child
    4. parent asked to give alternative strategy if bolshy.
  18. This sounds very similar to what we have in place. We recently started using Class Behaviour Charts and it is certainly having an impact on student behaviour.

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