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Policing in crisis

Discussion in 'Personal' started by moscowbore, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

  2. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    I'm afraid we can't deal with this right now due to the workload imposed by the success of the Brexit project.
  3. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    I have no sympathy. My latest experiences with the police are of a chaotic, disorganised force. They still do things in an incredibly old fashioned way, prefer to drive for miles instead of speaking on the phone, and many other ridiculous, time-wasting and inefficient practices. Our local police don't seem to have two brain cells to rub together. I know there are good police officers, but I can't see that they're in the majority.
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  4. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    As with most large (public funded) organisations the fault is probably not with the front line officers.

    If its anything like the Civil Service there will be layer upon layer of "management" (which is an odd choice of word since they cannot manage to organise a chimps' tea party) and an ever increasing HR department who don't appear to do anything useful.

    All of these individuals slow any decision making and hence progress to a grinding halt whilst at the same time their generous salaries means there is less in the bank to pay for effective staff.

    Don't blame the bobby on the beat, blame his/her boss.
  5. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Following the government's pledge to reduce bureaucracy for the police, the Home Office under Amanda Rudd introduced a 10-page form last year that every police officer has to complete each time they use handcuffs or draw a baton. The Home Office said it would help bring about "unprecedented transparency". :(
    sbkrobson likes this.
  6. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    But what I don't understand is why their highly paid management don't say, 'No, we're not doing that'. It's what a manager should be doing, not cravenly following every ridiculous instruction from people who know nothing about what they're giving the instructions for. It's so weak. And it's reflected in everything else they do, that they have the most absurd working practices. For example, the police were coming out to see us (ten miles from our 'local station'). They got in their car and drove here without first checking we were in, to ask us something they could just have easily asked after the phone. Or two friends went into the local station for help, the receptionist didn't know the answer (she should have, or been able to look it up, it wasn't anything secret) so called the nearest PC who drove three miles to tell the peoplethat he didn't know the answer to their query. These cannot be isolated incidents that have accidentally happened to me. Their culture is stupid, inefficient, old-fashioned and thoughtless.
  7. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    The Metropolitan police are increasingly dropping investigations into serious crimes such as sexual offences, violent attacks and arson within hours of them being reported, the Guardian can reveal.

    The UK’s largest force “screened out” 34,164 crimes without further investigation on the day they were reported in 2017, compared to 13,019 the year before. In the first five months of 2018, 18,093 crimes were closed in 24 hours, putting the number for the year on track to exceed last year’s total.

  8. elder_cat

    elder_cat Lead commenter

    We could have one police officer for every ten people in the UK. That would no doubt improve the odds of criminals being brought to book. But we'd then have to ask why we need police in such numbers. The number of police officers isn't the problem. The problem is the number of people committing crimes. Increasing the number of police officers may relieve the symptoms, but does nothing to address the underlying causes.

    Not so different from the education system then, by all accounts.
  9. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Last year I prevented one of my residents being scammed by a telephone call from criminals pretending to be police officers. On other matters I've needed to call the police, they have attended in person with identification, which for a variety of reasons, is more likely to bring about a satisfactory outcome.
  10. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    I'm sure there are times when a visit is necessary, but this wasn't one of them. And if it had been, then a call first would have been sensible so they didn't drive twenty miles for nothing. Similarly with the PC who was called away from whatever he was doing to tell my friends in person that he couldn't help them. It was farcical.
  11. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    There will inevitably be times when it seems like a visit was unnecessary, but some of the best policing outcomes happen through visiting people. The police don't have a right to enter peoples' home without just cause; and neither should they, but when there is the opportunity, it becomes simpler to assess whether there is something going on that individuals need help with.

    The safeguarding training I received as an estate manager, suggested I look out for signs of abuse, financial or otherwise. Signs that an individual can no longer live the independent lifestyle we hope they can.

    I had a reason on the second day I started in my current job to ask a lady I suspected to be a victim of fraud if I could come in for a chat. I had watched a person posing as a debt collector visit her two days running; and watched her struggle to get to the cash machine after his visit. As a con man, the fraudster seemed to be good at convincing his victims they owed money that needed to be immediately paid, but not very good at convincing those he wasn't bullying into coughing up.

    I intervened and as a consequence, the criminal ended up in court, but that was the least of the outcomes my intervention effected. I had been warned that the lady was a hoarder and an alcoholic; and on first glance, it was easy to see how she had acquired this reputation, but the things she was hoarding made no sense in terms of what is generally understood hoarding to be about.

    Her living room floor was filled with wine bottles and bags of rubbish intended to be recycled. The settee was piled high with newspapers. The rubbish was mostly ready meal containers that had been meticulously washed, the bottles had their labels painstaking removed. She suffered excruciating pain from arthritis in her hips that made it impossible to take the rubbish in her flat to the various recycling areas and on asking her why she was living with the pain, it transpired she was anaemic and surgeons wouldn't replace her hips until her anaemia had been brought under control.

    When I asked why she hadn't sought help from my predecessor, I learnt that she was being bullied by her neighbours and my predecessor was incompetent at dealing with the neighbours, who I later learned had been bullying him too, as indeed they've attempted to on several occasions with me.

    Back to the sweet old lady, the solution to her difficulties was first to persuade her that she needed help to cope, to organise the means to allow her to afford a cleaner to visit once a week and to make it clear to the neighbours that I will not tolerate bullying behaviour and if I ever catch them trying it again, I'll have them on a fizzer.

    The lady in question now lives in a clean and tidy home, has had her hips replaced and is more mobile than she was, but best of all, is keen to engage with the rest of the community, which something she was reluctant to do all the time the fictitious reputation about her was being rumoured.

    As for being an alcoholic, she likes a drink but there's no evidence she drinks any more than many of you. They'd have you all be down as alcoholics if you never had the means of disposing of the bottles.

    And finally, I've found it fascinating to learn how rumours quickly develop and evolve into new rumours, because any story requires the imagination of those who hear them to depict a scenario they are familiar with. The scenario they depict, corrupts the story, so every time it gets passed on, it becomes more unreliable.

    This stuff isn't intuitive, because we've all been conditioned since birth to trust in stories. It's what made religions powerful, enabled politicians to get elected and enable the loathsome waste of skins who bully individuals to get away with it for as long as they do.
    les25paul and monicabilongame like this.
  12. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    It is essential we keep, and defend policing by consent. The police need to be better resourced, and above all there must be more of them: This tweet from John Apter, a serving police officer and spokesman for the police officers' association sums it up:
    "Prime Minister, I am proud to be the voice for over 120,000 police officers. They are brave, professional and dedicated men and women who deserve more than your thanks. It is because of you that many are demoralised and broken. If you truly respect them you need to show it."
    Moony, monicabilongame and sbkrobson like this.
  13. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    Nevertheless, all my recent encounters with the police have given the impression of an appallingly run, backward, inefficient set up. I'm sure plenty of good things happen, I just don't buy the 'we don't have enough time' thing, because in my experience they would have a lot more time if they thouight for five minutes about what they were doing.

    Our foster daughter seriously assaulted someone. They had her in to the police station and had a talk, and said she'd need to come in further times and do some work with their youth team. It would have been really good for her. But that was the last we ever heard. When I tried to follow it up the only response I got was that they must have decided not to do anything wfter all. What a terrible message to send her. It would have been far better to have the talk and call it a day. They know they are busy. How stupid to promise something, never follow it through and not even bother to let the person know. Almost every encounter is a version of the same thing. Chaos is the only word that comes to mind.
  14. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Replace every time you use the word 'police' and replace it with 'teachers', and there we have our problem.
    Shedman likes this.

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