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Police stop people for covering their faces from facial recognition camera then fine man £90

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Weald56, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter

    Not sure about this - is it right that people should have the right to hide themselves from face recognition cameras?


    Monitors saw several other people stopped outside Romford station, in north east London, including a student who had pulled his hood up and a man handcuffed and put in a police van.

    Activists from the Liberty human rights group said they spoke to a youth worker who was stopped because he “looked like someone” on a watchlist, but had been misidentified.

    Scotland Yard said the two-day deployment of cameras in Romford would be the last of 10 trials of the controversial technology."
  2. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    An interesting one indeed, why not just wear a balaclava, it's cold enough and there are cameras everywhere.

    That said who knows what human rights claims criminals may attempt to use to hide their activities since often by default they are untrustworthy.
  3. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Mind you, the £90 fine was for a public order offence when he told the police to p*ss off!
    needabreak likes this.
  4. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Clearly the devil's in the detail, thanks for pointing that out.
    nomad likes this.
  5. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter

    Indeed (assuming he actually said it, of course) - but had he not been stopped, he wouldn't have got into the situation he did. And someone else was stopped because he 'looked like someone'!
  6. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    What about motorcyclists wearing full face helmets?
  7. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    Why shouldn't he be allowed to tell the police where to go when they've stopped him because they are using an unproven, unreliable and buggy piece of technology? It seems like a natural and reasonable response. Facial recognition technology is not nearly good enough to even be trialled in the real world. If it had happened to mei would be complaining long and loud to everyone I could think of. And the police wonder why they are disliked and mistrusted...
    sbkrobson likes this.
  8. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    If your child is ever murdered or raped, don't you think you'd be grateful for the possibility of apprehending the perpetrator using the latest technology? Why shouldn't the Police stop someone who looks like a wanted man? What else are they going to go on? His goodwill?
  9. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Eyewitness sightings. If a wanted description or photofit is issued, then the net is cast wide enough-the general public have a far wider reaching capacity to spot similarity or likeness than any static placement of a CCTV or facial recognition set up. Moreover, if as an actual human you spot somebody who resembles a description, you may follow that person in some way or other, or view them from various angles. An installed device, no matter the resolution or input of recognition parameters, wont do that.

    If as a perpetrator I knew I were passing a facial recognition system, there are millions of ways I can evade detection-I can sneeze on passing it, I could blow out my cheeks momentarily, I could look the other way. But evading detection from the general public is far far harder. They're everywhere.

    Your other question "why shouldn't they stop somebody who resembles a wanted man?" is answered precisely by the million reasons they abolished the "Sus Law"
    Laphroig and monicabilongame like this.
  10. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    Being stopped by the police, never mind arrested, for something you didn't do, is incredibly traumatic. It is not a benign occurrence which doesn't matter. It's awful, frightening and a potential threat to your liberty and your ability to live normally. Think of your enhanced DBS which includes if you've been arrested, which is extraordinarily hard to get removed. Add to that the fact that all the time they are pursuing the wrong person they are not pursuing the right person and you have a recipe for a botched investigation. If facial recognition technology were always right it might have some use, but it's nowhere near that. It picks out the wrong people, fails to pick out the right people and is easily fooled. And its fallibility is well documented. It's not yet good enough to be used in the real world even in a trial. There is no point because it's already known to be very inaccurate.
    Laphroig and monicabilongame like this.
  11. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    An abuse of the law. If a police officer is offended by this language then they should find another career. Some of us put up with worse in our classrooms on an almost daily basis.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  12. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

  13. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Complain about rising crime, then find excuses not to interrogate potential suspects, ah yes that will reduce crime and increase public safety.

    Reminds me of those parents declaring what a lovely child they have/had and how innocent he/she is/was when running drugs for or leading gangs... Tie police hands because some have behaved inappropriately and then sit back and bemoan a crime ridden society from the comfort of our safer environs, yes that makes sense.

    Another young person is stabbed in our capital and there is outrage... Try to identify a potential cause and be damned... What a sorry state of affairs.

    If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide (faces or otherwise) in my view.
    border_walker and Aquamarina1234 like this.
  14. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    Which might be reasonable if the technology works but it doesn't. You don't reduce crime by sropping the wrong people, you just waste time and put people's backs up.

    I'm always astonished by the 'if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear' argument. Try being arrested for something you didn't do, with all the attendant consequences, and then see exactly how much you have to fear.
    monicabilongame and Vince_Ulam like this.
  15. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    I thought they'd have reasonable grounds to arrest someone but if it wasn't you as in the case of mistaken identity that should be easily dealt with. I'd be more concerned when other systems fail that result in police shooting someone as in that case of that poor man on the tube a few years ago.
  16. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Star commenter

    Do you like putting up with it or would you prefer effective sanctions?
  17. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    Yes, you would think that. Any normal person would. But in fact the police play fast and loose with the rules, knowing that few people will have the energy or resources to bring a claim for wrongful arrest. You really need legal help and that is very expensive. Complaints to the police are dealt with by the same police, who even get to decide whether a complaint is worth investigating! They ignore PACE, which is supposed to protect people. Of course there are rules about who can be arrested. But what makes you think the police take any notice of them? A person being arrested is incredibly vulnerable and rarely in a position to know their rights or challenge what is happening. And in doing so they may unwittingly commit an offence! And once arrested, it's a heck of a job to be 'unarrested'.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  18. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    I don't have experience of it so will accept your analysis.
  19. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Police intervention is not an appropriate response to swearing in the classroom.
  20. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Why do we think Police officers go round arresting and annoying people unnecessarily?

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