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Police caution- been referred to GTC.

Discussion in 'Personal' started by jsmith45, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. The number of people getting cautions is a national disgrace.

    The target driven police state is a result of Labour looking for numbers to disprove what we all know about how our society is failing.

    This thread has 2 victims of statistics on violent crime

    Both cases should have been dealt with by a quick word, at least one of the victims of the system was "truthed" to (knowingly belittling the seriousness of accepting a caution)and has now got a criminal record she does not deserve.

    When the police add up how well they have done at the end of the month, they will have 2 violent crimes that are solved.

    The GTC will probably just put you on probation and let you carry on teaching, but with a clause that you must send a report every year that you have not done it again. They may insist that you inform every relevent body (schools etc) about your crime. they will then have their statistic of how they are upholding standards.

    Schools will keep failing, Grannies will continue to hide behind locked doors for fear of muggers. Yobs will continue to rule our streets.

    The Government will be able to tell us how well they are doing and will be able to produce the figures to prove it.

    I think I need to lie down for a while now

  2. Oh dear

    I haven't had a caution but that wasn't for the police not trying. I was told

    "admit it, accept a caution and you can go"

    "if X complains again we will arrest you again and we'll take you to Y police station where you will wait 6 hours just for a solicitor"

    "If we have to investigate further we'll have to take all your employer's computers"

    So I totally understand why people accept a caution. I just happen to be bloody minded, and the complaint against me was part of a vendetta against me - long story.

    BUT a caution is an admission of guilt. It can only be given if you have admitted you committed a crime. Well that's what the law says, but the police don't tell you that.

    A caution never becomes 'spent' because they are not covered by the rehabilitation of offenders act.

    I've come across a student who had a playground fight aged 10 and received a caution - a CRB was needed for work placement and it showed up. Ludicrous.

    If you received a caution without

    a) there being enough evidence for a reasonable prospect of prosecution

    b) admitting guilt

    c) understanding the significance

    then your caution is not legally valid.
  3. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    It's wrong to believe the caution will be 'spent' after 5 years - not for a teacher.
  4. Cautions are not covered by the rehabilitation of offenders act and will never be spent for any person who gets one, If you get 20 years for rape, the conviction is spent 15 years after you leave prison. 20 year sentence equals about 6-7 years inside. The conviction will be spent after about 22 years.

    If you accept a caution for howling at the moon when you are 10, the caution will stay on your record for ever, some forces used to "step down" cautions after 10 years but there is no law to say they have to.

    "Stepping down" means the details of the caution are hidden in the register.


  5. You need to start collating evidence now to support the argument that you have learned from your mistakes and "demonstrated insight" into any failings. You also need to demonstrate that you are not a threat to children, nor are you unprofessional and nor do you bring the profession into disrepute.

    This sounds incredibly patronising - but here's why.

    The GTC will automatically find you guilty because you have been convicted of a relevant offence. (By accepting a caution.) You are not allowed to plead not guilty under the "rules". However, the indicative sanctions guidelines detail that if you have demonstrated insight then the panel have to take into consideration the more minor sanctions, including a reprimand or conditional registration order. The most common outcome over the last two years is a conditional registration, the condition being that you do not obtain any further cautions or convictions. If the presenting officer successfully demonstrates that have not demonstrated insight and that your behaviour was seriously incompatible with teachers' code of conduct then a serious sanction, ie a suspension or prohibition order can be applied.

    Incidentally, if you choose to not appear at a hearing this can be counted against you, and the panel will decide that you have not demonstrated "insight" and they would therefore suspend or prohibit you from teaching.

    What you need to do now is get a solicitor, be completely open with your current employer, obtain witness statements and character references (especially from your current colleagues), and then wait. Since this is a convictions case it will be rubber stamped by the GTC investigating committee and move straight to a hearing date. However, this won't take place until it has been passed back to the GTC from the DCFS & the Singleton Panel. It could be up to a year before it gets back to the GTCE, and then probably another year before you get to a final hearing date. The process is extremely slow.

    Process in brief (very rough estimates) Police to GTC - 1-2 months. GTC to DCFS and investigation by DCFS - 6 months - Singleton Panel - 3 months - Passed back to GTCE and GTCE investigation - 4-6 months - GTCE investigating committee to date of hearing - 2-4 months, hearing process 3-8 months. (Dependant on number of hearing days, which are normally not consecutive.)

    Resist the temptation to pester the DCFS and GTC - it will achieve absolutely nothing, and quite frankly, to a large extent they will ignore you.

    It is very important that any and all communication goes through a solicitor. It can be very expensive. If you have access to home insurance legal help, look into this now. If your union is offering legal help, establish now exactly the terms under which they are prepared to support you, and get this in writing - you wouldn't want to be shafted at short notice. If at all possible find a way to get the insurance or union to cover your costs, otherwise it will be very expensive.

    This doesn't all mean the end of a career, but you are going to need to be extremely thick skinned to get through this and you will need a supportive current employer.

    Your solicitor at the police station should have warned you of the consequences of accepting a caution, since teaching is a reportable profession. This could be looked into, but I am not an expert in this area.

    I know this isn't entirely positive but I hope it is accurate and useful. Post an email on this forum if you want further advice, including the details of specialist solicitors.

  6. Answer to #3 - the GTC investigating team leader in charge of your case will send you a letter detailing the particulars of the allegation, and setting out what will happen. They will also send a form asking to to confirm your address and your current employer.

    This letter will come recorded delivery. Interestingly the GTC should not proceed with the case if they cannot prove you received the letter - although I would not advising refusing delivery of it.

    The GTC will inform your employer in the next couple of months after you receive that letter. That letter will bascially be a rewrite of the one you receive.

    Sometime after that you will receive a date for an investigating committe and a deadline by which you can make any submissions. A solicitor is absolutely required for this stage.
  7. Reply to #13.

    The police inform the GTC, since teaching is a reportable profession.

    The GTC automatically pass on every misconduct case to the DCFS for their consideration on child protection grounds. The DCFS send a letter to defendent at this stage. If required the Singleton panel make a decision on it, after requesting a submission. (For consideration of inclusion on list 99) Otherwise all non child protection cases are the automatically passed back to the GTCE.

    I would imagine this case it at or nearing this stage.
  8. Reply to Bingo.

    If the Police were going to report the matter to the GTC they would have done it within one month of the date of the issue of the caution.

    It would therefore seem unlikely that the Police have done this.

    For the GTC to initiate a case against you they would have to receive a referral from an school, an LEA, a supply teaching body, the press or, (rarely) a member of he public. Any educational body involved would be more likely to check the GTC's register of sanctions (which you will not be on) rather than make a referral about a matter they knew nothing about. But if they did...

    It's a tricky one which might be worth getting legal advice on.

    However, do bear in mind that that you do not have to be a member of the GTCE, (or have EVER been a member GTCE) for the GTCE to investigate you. The GTCE can investigate any "registered" teacher - ie anyteacher with a DCFS number. The GTC can apply sanctions to any teacher who is "eligable" for GTCE membership.
  9. bogstandardcomp

    bogstandardcomp New commenter

    This seems to be quite a minefield and there should be clear national guidelines for teachers as to what should happen in the case of a caution both in terms of the type of caution, GTC's response/view and also how schools should view someone with a caution.

    Certainly the GTC who I loathe should issue clear guidelines about this issue, and in fact after this I might send an email memo to all my colleagues about the consequences of agreeing to a caution as it seems 'cautionary situations' could occur in relatively minor incidents.

    Is the best advice: do not sign anything until you have seen your solicitor?

    I might also draw this thread to the attention of my union.
  10. This has happened to me recently. Does anyone know how the gtc responded to jsmith??
  11. My advice to anyone who has ever been in these difficult situations is to remain calm and to wait for the duty solicitor no matter how long it takes. The desire to give you a caution is, in part, motivated by a desire to turn you around and ship you out. Unfortunately, anything on your record follows you for life as a teacher and, at present, teachers are always guilty until proven innocent.
  12. They lie, sorry it IS a conviction and it will stay on your CRB for life.Itt makes the police's clean up figures look good. I know this is too late for you but for anyone else if this happens, REFUSE THE CAUTION, they then have to convince the CPS it is in the public interest to prosecute you.

    Check eith your union and your house insurer to see if you have legal cover. It may be possible to appeal against the caution but can take time and money.

    IMHO Police Cautions are evil, teachign teenagers who want to go on to be nurses and have to do work placements it seems that these days any teenager who argues loudly with mum gets a caution.
  13. I am amazed at how long trivial offences remain on your record. When CRB checks came in, a few years ago, everyone in my school had to sign up to get one. When mine came back, there was the 'reprimand' I had received for riding a motorcyle underage (Macmillan was Prime Minister at the time). Nothing happened about this, except I was the butt of 'Easyrider' jokes for a while.
    In the modern climate of paranoia in some school SMTs, I wonder if I might have fared differently. Reading this threat sounds like some sort of Kafka-esque nightmare. (I can imagine some parent writing to demand whether someone, who committed a minor traffic offence nearly 50 years ago, was a fit person to teach.)
  14. chubbyone

    chubbyone Occasional commenter

    I worked with someone a few years ago who was convicted of drink driving and lost her license and was banned from driving for a number of years. It di not affect her getting the job as she was a NQT and when he moved back to Scotland she still got a teaching job.
  15. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    It is not a conviction...
  16. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    Have you coantacted your union for advice? Yours won't be the first case they will have handled.

    For what its worth I know of a teacher tried and convicted of drink driving and banned but who still retained his job. I can't see a bit of pushing and shoving in a domectic is seen to be worse than that!
  17. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    A bit late to be offering advice to jsmith45, I suspect ...

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