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points query

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by emilystrange, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. emilystrange

    emilystrange Star commenter

    just a bit of a query - i have a reception child who has asked to join recorder and keyboard lessons at school (peri teacher). where might that fit in with CD6? or owt else? she doesn't play much music in school otherwise.
    also - i have a boy who has been assessed for future specialist gymnastics training (at age 4!). not sure what to say about that either. i'd give point 9 but evidence of 8 isn't great.
    thanks for thoughts. just getting fuzzy head with moderation coming up.

     
  2. emilystrange

    emilystrange Star commenter

    just a bit of a query - i have a reception child who has asked to join recorder and keyboard lessons at school (peri teacher). where might that fit in with CD6? or owt else? she doesn't play much music in school otherwise.
    also - i have a boy who has been assessed for future specialist gymnastics training (at age 4!). not sure what to say about that either. i'd give point 9 but evidence of 8 isn't great.
    thanks for thoughts. just getting fuzzy head with moderation coming up.

     
  3. I wouldn't give a 9 if there's something else that's missing. There's still time for hime to achieve point 8 and then you can reconsider the 9.
    As for the girl, would there be opportunities for her to show her classmates what she's learning, because then you will see for yourself which elements of CD she is achieving. Of course it would also be helpful if you could talk to the music teacher about what she can do. Perhaps in conversations with her you may consider point 8 in terms of music (express and communicate ideas, thoughts etc.).
     
  4. emilystrange

    emilystrange Star commenter

    that's what i thought about the boy, just wanted someone else to agree!
    with the girl, i'm not sure that she's an 8, yet. i know she messes about on the keyboard at home (mum's words) but her lessons are AD, even though she chose them and they're extras. i'm not sure there's a lot of improvisation involved. will ask her teacher...
     
  5. emilystrange

    emilystrange Star commenter

    I have no evidence that there's anything but adult directed learning in those music lessons. They're extra curricular and I don't see any of it. The girl doesn't choose to use musical equipment in play very often either, so pt 6 is all I can give with what I've got so far.
     
  6. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    I think it's ridiculous that you're expected to comment on what goes on out of school and I don't see the relevance of improvisation in relation to learning how to play an instrument.

     
  7. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Can she sing in tune? Can she hold a rhythm? Does she enjoy listening to music?

    Why are the teachers of little children be expected to know anything more than those basic facts? If you get an intensely musical child in your class, you'll surely know it.
    I'd love to discover a modern Mozart but, to be honest, I don't hold out that much hope.

     
  8. hurny

    hurny New commenter

    I think you have answered your own question.
    The area of learning is about creativity. For SP8 I would be looking for a child who independently accesses musical instruments and uses them when singing songs etc.
    But CD SP8 also incorporates these:
    Expresses and communicates ideas, thoughts and feelings using a range of materials and suitable tools and imaginative and role-play and movement and designing and making, and a variety of songs and musical instruments.
    I've added the 'and' as the child should be able to do all of these things independently.
    Before giving SP8 to the girl, you have to consider if she expresses her ideas through painting, collage, modelling, role play, dance, singing and music during CI activities. If she doesn't do all of these, then SP8 shouldn't be given.
     
  9. Not so very ridiculous when you consider that we ask parents to comment on their children's learning and achievements to form part of our evidence. Also I understood the music lessons to be in school, where the OP would have access to talk to the teacher.
    I think this refers to a more child-initiated approach to playing an instrument, as opposed to a completely adult-directed activity, which may have given better evidence towards achieving ELG's for CD, particularly CD 7.
    I still feel that in conversation with the child there may be evidence to be found for CD 8, as well as CD 6.
     
  10. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    True, and I overlooked this. Apologies to the OP.
    That's a moot point, though I agree that at such an early age it'll be a rare child who has made much progress in the context of instrument lessons. Later on, surely musicality shows itself clearly through such semi-measurable things as touch, phrasing, interpretation and technique? This might applyin early childhood too.
     
  11. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Personally, I find this ridiculous.
    Human beings are not made like that! My two brothers are both intensely musical. Neither of them can draw or dance for toffee. How useful are such umbrella-judgments?
     
  12. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    Would it matter, would the whole system grind to a halt? Would it be an intolerable injustice if a child got a point in Creativity that they weren't 100% entitled to? Lighten up!
     
  13. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Are you suggresting that we go in for a spot of Creative Assessing, Inky? You naughty thing.
     
  14. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I had this same argument with a moderator a few years ago they child met all the criteria except she rarely made modelsand then only with an adult ...absolutely mad. I hope people use more common sense when the new profile is revealed.
     
  15. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    At our LA moderation meetings they talk a lot about 'best fit' which seems common sense to me. They don't ask for any particular number of pieces of 'evidence' and accept that we know our children well enough not to need everything in written or photographic form.
    In response to inky - [​IMG]
     
  16. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    In defense of my LA they are normally very sensible which is why I was shocked by this (new) person insisting the girl needed to do model making
     
  17. hurny

    hurny New commenter

    I'm sure it wouldn't matter, from the perspective of the child or the teachers. When they go into KS1 (in most schools) a lot of these activities are adult directed anyway.
    I don't necessarily agree with the system of making EYFSP judgements. I'm just trying to help the OP in making the judgement about CD SP8 as moderators will probably ask for evidence for all of the types of activities mentioned. The EYFSP handbook states this for SP7:
    Attainment of this scale point rests on the child’s ability to draw from all these named forms of expression, using a range of ways to develop and express imaginative thinking and ideas.
    So it's a teacher's choice to either give the SP because the child expresses creativity in some of those forms......as it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things....or don't give the SP because the child hasn't achieved creative expression in all forms....therefore avoiding conflict with a moderator.

     
  18. hurny

    hurny New commenter

    Unfortunately, this is not the case with all LAs.
     
  19. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    I've now at the twilight of my career and beginning to think that I'd relish that conflict!
     
  20. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    The point itself is what is stupid.
     

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