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plastic and the po

Discussion in 'Personal' started by nizebaby, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. nizebaby

    nizebaby Star commenter

    All over the developing world, people depend upon cheap plastic goods - from household products to toys. Stuff like coffee and shampoo is sold in sachets because people can't afford bigger, recyclable containers.

    The situation here isn't much
    better. Banning free plastic bags was a tiny step in the right direction. Bolder thinking is needed.

    All over the world.
     
    sbkrobson and BertieBassett2 like this.
  2. nizebaby

    nizebaby Star commenter

    Whoops - half of my title has been lost. Never mind.
     
    BertieBassett2 likes this.
  3. BertieBassett2

    BertieBassett2 Star commenter

    Oh I’m so puerile - I thought you were going to suggest an alternative material for potty training....
     
  4. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    The situation here is very much better than this
    [​IMG]
     
  5. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Nah. We went on a day cruise up the Po and there wasn't much plastic - just a whole load of Palladian villas, as I recall.
     
  6. May2

    May2 Established commenter

    I thought you were talking about the teletubby
     
  7. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    You know that. I know that. Most people claim to know that (oh, apart from the most powerful man in the world, of course)
    But who is going to start?
    The manufacturer, the politician, or the consumer?
     
  8. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    I thought the thread was about pollution in Italy's longest river (the River Po).
     
  9. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Yes.
    Or the German bottom
    Or the Post Office
    Or the Ferry Company
    Or the Chinese verb meaning to post something on a public forum
    Or the Postal Order
    Or the Probation Officer

    Or the issue of plastic. That is the urgent issue. More urgent than OPs title being curtailed by whonkowswhatorwhyorwhocares.

    Plastic. There should be less plastic. How can we achieve this? As a race? What you or I do personally, whether to virtue signal our awareness or otherwise, is a drop in the ocean compared to the need to act as one race. Because there's only one planet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    nizebaby likes this.
  10. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    One thing that would help would be for some Asian countries to stop using rivers as rubbish collection facilities and arrange some actual rubbish collection facilities instead. Like climate change, this isn't an issue that is totally within the hands of the individual to deal with.

    [​IMG]

    This is one of ( think) four large gas carrying ships taking US shale gas to Scotland and other parts of the world, largely to be made into plastic pellets. This is increasing the amount of new plastics being made. It is vaunted as creating jobs, though recycling plastics would also create jobs, and I suspect more of them. It's happening fairly quietly but is adding to the problem.

    Making virgin (new) plastic is cheaper and therefore makes more profit than recycling, but adds to rather than addresses the problem of what to do with used plastics. It is a move driven by greed rather than responsibility, no doubt some will defend the right of the already filthy rich to become even more rich.
     
    sbkrobson and nizebaby like this.
  11. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Sure.
    But that plastic still exists. Will largely go to landfill. The bigger help would be for it not to be manufactured in the first place.

    In China, waste plastic used to be reduced for production of other domestically sellable stuff eg furniture, tyres, etc, which was so profitable that they ended up importing most of Britains's waste plastic bottles (about 65% of them). This was vetoed about three years ago as the associated pollution levels from reducing used plastic was breaching even their own legislation about city pollution levels. They no longer wanted our used bottles, and have also cut down drastically on recycling their own plastic too.

    The recent very sudden drive to cut down plastic in the UK stems 100% from this. It is unspoken, but there is a demonstrably causal connection. Panic at local and then governmental level that we will no longer be able to chuck our plastic bottles in the council recycling bin, and expect them to be dealt with somehow. China no longer wants to pay us for rubbish, and it takes that and only that for our government to encourage no longer using the stuff.
    Thus these days we care about the planet a bit more.

    Profit.
    vs
    Plastic Reduction

    It's a big beast of a battle. It makes me so sad,and sadder still that the only discernible difference comes on the back of political strutting and posturing about caring, when actually it's about money.
     
    Mangleworzle likes this.
  12. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Consumers have little say in how things are packaged. Manufacturers make whatever is on the orders they get to the specifications on the order.

    The simplest method of reducing plastic is to prevent supermakets from using/selling it. That way, there's a relatively small number of organisations to monitor.
     
    border_walker and Mangleworzle like this.
  13. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    We can still exercise a role in supply and demand.
    I've said it before-if you do supermarket shopping, take the plastic off your goods which you can when you have paid for them, and dump it on the conveyor belt at the checkout. If everybody did this...

    A good example is four tins of beans held together with plastic. That bothers me.
     
    LondonCanary likes this.
  14. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Of course, but landfill at least concentrates the waste instead of spreading it out thinly as in water. Collection also allows for recycling to take place.

    The official position does, there are many of us who have been anti-excessive plastic for a long time. One person not pi**ing in the village well makes little difference if another 10 carry on doing it.

    The more I think about it, it seems to be ordinary people and politicians who can make a difference for the good of all. Businesses and industrialists left to their unregulated selves make things worse and are far more replaceable than they tell us they are.
     
  15. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    It's a bit of a job to do that if you buy water, fizzy drinks or even toothpaste.

    Consumers can make some choices though, such as do they really need liquid soap? Is bottled water honestly necessary and so on.
     
  16. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    It's entirely possible to turn plastic back into oil from small-scale to large.

    https://inhabitat.com/japanese-inve...machine-that-converts-plastic-bags-into-fuel/





    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/14/energy/powerhouse-energy-plastic-hydrogen/index.html

    What needs to happen now is that this process is followed in every country on a full-scale basis. The technology is there, just needs the procedures put in place to make this the norm... and perhaps for fines to be levied against local authorities where this is not happening.
     
  17. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

  18. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

  19. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Oh dear, is there any hope when one solution is on balance and arguably just as bad as the the thing it was meant to be a solution for? Still it all keeps us industriously engaged giving us focus and meaning to our lives.
     
  20. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    And the oil can be used to power the plant converting the plastic to oil.
     
    needabreak likes this.

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