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Phonics

Discussion in 'Primary' started by ROSIEGIRL, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. The idea that phonics is sufficient is spread by 'phonics proponents'* who will not acknowledge that children need more than SP to read unknown words they come across, that children need more than phonic reading 'books' to learn to read rather than just decode, and by a government that over- emphasises phonics and distorts teaching by giving SP the accolade of its own special test. *I assume that by this you mean SP proponents.
     
  2. But Progression in Phonics was not the most effective way of teaching phonics. For a critique:
    http://www.rrf.org.uk/archive.php?n_ID=29&n_issueNumber=46
    There's phonics and there's junk phonics. PIP falls more into the second category...
     
  3. I do all of these too. But phonics has made the difference to my poorer reading recovery children.
     
  4. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Tell me where I have ever said that!!!
    Eddie you can't just make up things to fit your belief
     
  5. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    or they could be like me last year with your Y6 intervention ... just curious[​IMG]
     
  6. 'junk phonics'? How can phonics be junk? Phonics can only be accurate or inaccurate surely. Did PIP teach that 'c' made the sound /d/ or something? the reason I mentioned PIP was because Debbie claimed that phonics was not taught before 2007, and was using this assertion evidence to justify the failures that Eddie has referred to. Phonics was around before 2007, and indeed, through the whole history of reading English.
     
  7. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    We are in 2012 and phonics still isn't taught in some schools and in others it is only paid lip service.
    Many schools taught phonics in reception (or perhaps only taught a sound a week ) then stopped once childrenentered KS1.
     
  8. Not used till 2008 in my school.
    Y3s are first yr group who had phonics from reception age.
    Y4s had a bit in when in y1.
    All Y4s and below are confident and competent readers at an age appropriate level.
    Although we have small year groups, and statistically speaking, it is not a big enough sample to be significant...it is still astonishing that all of the Y3s (who started in our school) read better than all of the Y5s... even the brightest Y5s.



    I
     
  9. It wasn't me who said that we did not have phonics before 2007.
    The message was not strong enough, or clear enough, that phonics needs to be taught well for reading and for spelling - and that multi-cueing strategies, when these amount to guessing from various cues, can damage the reading the long-term reading habits of at least some children.
    For many decades there has been a general lack of teacher-training in phonics - and in some universities, this is still the case according to various student-teachers that I am meeting on my travels.
     
  10. I apologise Debbie, it was Maizie.
    "There must be systematic, regular and frequent teaching of phonological awareness, phonics and spelling throughout key stage 1. Teachers should follow the progression set out in the word level objectives carefully. It sets out both and order for teaching and the expectations of what pupils should achieve by the end of each term.....Although it is essential that these decoding skills are practised and applied in shared reading, they also need to be taught through carefully structured activities, which help,pupils to hear and discriminate regularities in speech and to see how these are related to letters and letter combinations in spelling and reading. " From the instructions for the literacy hour, 15 minutes word level work.1998. If you read this section of the Literacy Hour document you will find that this 15 minutes was expected to be phonics instruction, with a nod to other cues to cover high frequency word recognition. And yet, as Eddie points out, reading failure did not suddenly become history.
     
  11. It would be interesting to do a quick survey of all the schools represented by people on this forum, and find the proportion that do not use phonics. I have never been in a primary school that did not use phonics.
     
  12. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Recommended structure of a literacy hour
    First section (15 minutes)
    - Make the objectives of the lesson clear
    - Whole class: Modelling reading using an enlarged text, or modelling writing by scribing with the class.
    Second section (15 minutes)
    -Whole class: Focused word or sentence work.
    Third section (about 20 minutes)
    - Group or individual work: Reading, writing or word and sentence work, while the teacher works with one or more ability group on guided text work.
    Final section (about 10 minutes)
    - Whole class plenary session: Reviewing the learning that has taken place related to the objectives of the lesson; the pupils, not the teacher, explain what they have learnt.
    https://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=81551
    Half OF England's primary teachers are failing to teach phonics, a key part of the Literacy Hour, according to government inspectors.
     
  13. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    One third of the rest teach phonics badly, say HM Inspectorate which has surveyed 200 primary schools and 400 literacy hours
     
  14. Have you noticed the date of the article?
     
  15. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Yes ...you mentioned the Literacy Hour which went out with the ark (if it ever came in)
     
  16. The literacy hour came in nationally in1998. The article you cited was written in the same year. It cannot be taken as evidence that phonics was not being taught in the noughties, as per the instructions in the literacy hour document. Were you teaching when the literacy hour was current Msz?
     
  17. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I was teaching before the literacy hour thumbie in fact I was in a pilot school.
     
  18. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I probably should add that we didn't adopt it after the pilot
     
  19. Did you actually read the comparison between Progression in Phonics and synthetic phonics, thumbie. There it details a phonics 'programme which doesn't teach any letter/sound correspondences until term 2, then it teaches all consonant correspondencesin term 2 (with all the children thinking '*** are we learning this for? What is the purpose of it?) and no decoding and blending until the simple vowel correspondences are taught in term 3 (because you can't actually read any words without vowel sound).
    Do you think it is a 'good' phonics programme?
     

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