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Phonics

Discussion in 'Primary' started by ROSIEGIRL, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. ROSIEGIRL

    ROSIEGIRL Senior commenter

    I did say 'some of you'!
     
  2. Maizie I don't think Rosen is advocating the use of picture clues
     
  3. So which 'cues' do you think he advocates, Rob?

     
  4. mystery10

    mystery10 Occasional commenter

    In the same blog, I did find "So what happened when you met Nick Gibb" quite funny. He doesn't seem to have much to say though apart from "books, books, books"!! [​IMG]
     
  5. Well, it is in effect a clue, as it is designed to encourage children to think the word makes sense as the name of a creature, thus preventing them from misreading the word as a real word from their existing vocabulary. The fact that this has been felt necessary simply points out the fact that children will attempt to find meaning in text as an integral part of the reading process. If they do not attempt to find meaning it does not matter how fantastic they are at decoding. Furthermore, when reading the English language, attempting to read by using phonics alone will not guarantee accurate reading, as 'the code' is too complex.
     
  6. Which means that he hasn't the foggiest notion of the purpose of the decoding check as it is meant to find out if children can make the right sounds when reading each word.
     
  7. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Since the teacher tells the child that the words are nonsense words it seems a bit redundant
     
  8. This SP decoding skill is useful for reading but unfortunately is being promoted as THE ANSWER. The existence of the phonics test will inform practice. This means that certain important aspects of reading may be neglected. The way that SP is promoted as an exclusive and sufficient strategy makes this even more likely.
     
  9. This thread really does expose all the confused ideas about 'reading' that ciruculate in schoolls.
    Words are auditory constructs - they are parcels of meaning - they can be heard but they cannot be seen. The whole idea of a 'nonsense word' is therefore a contradiction in terms - since words are parcels of meaning how can a meaningless word exist?
    It is entirely understandable that parents confuse the idea of text and words but the fact that teachers use the words interchangeably goes along way to explain why 100,000 children leave school unable to read every year.
     
  10. Yes, somebody must have realised that children naturally look for meaning, in spite of the teacher's pronouncements.
     
  11. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    so the following isn't a nonsense poem On the Ning Nang Nong
    Where the Cows go Bong!
    and the monkeys all say BOO!
    There's a Nong Nang Ning
    Where the trees go Ping!
    And the tea pots jibber jabber joo.
    On the Nong Ning Nang
    All the mice go Clang
    And you just can't catch 'em when they do!
    So its Ning Nang Nong
    Cows go Bong!
    Nong Nang Ning
    Trees go ping
    Nong Ning Nang
    The mice go Clang
    What a noisy place to belong
    is the Ning Nang Ning Nang Nong!!
    or thisLewis Carroll, he went a-walking, one blustery summer's day,
    And bumped into the Fluttersnoop, in the merry month of May.
    Good Snoop, how do you rumble, in the slimy tove and stew,
    And how are all the Moomraths, who used to live with you?
    Good Sir, they are slip-sloth, and skoobered to a man,
    But seven of them are schlepping in the back of that green van,
    The rest they are out slothing, upon the snow and ice,
    And doing sneckville sneckabunds, which really aren't nice.
    Snowbuff, snowbuff, the poet mused, sniganda do za roo,
    I have to say I wouldn't have a zot sarong like you.
    The Snoop he cried a crystal tear, he sniffed, indeed it's ronsense,
    I'm glad that I bumped into you, you speak such fluent nonsense.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    meaning in a list of random words ... whether real or made up nonsense words [​IMG]
     
  13. Yes, it's weird, isn't it, but even with newly-minted words human beings ascribe meaning. It's just that their understanding is individual to themselves. Although, remarkably, you would probably find many similarities in the meanings different people ascribe in these nonsense poems, because they use the context supplied by familiar words. They also know that it is 'nonsense' they are reading, and ultimately, accept that that carries the sense of something anarchic that the poet intends - paradoxically, meaning through the lack of meaning.
     
  14. ....Yes....look in a dictionary to see that single words have meanings.
     
  15. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    even nonsense ones
     
  16. No. The point about the pictures going with the nonsense 'words' is so that children interpret the word as having a meaning - ie that it refers to the picture. I think the hope is that this will prevent them from saying a word that closely matches the nonsense 'word', misled by their belief that the word should have a meaning.
     
  17. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

  18. Yes, really, as stated in your link.
     
  19. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    they need to try harder if they think those pictures help
     
  20. I agree, but I think that is rather beside the point.
     

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