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PGCEi (international) - insights and advice please!

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by Mckk, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Has anybody with an iPGCE stood up at a parent's events and told them that they are not qualified as a teacher in their own country?
    yasf likes this.
  2. yasf

    yasf Established commenter

    So do I. I also know some pretty good teachers with just the CELTA or no teaching quals at all. A proper teaching course does, however, give you a head start, give you extra support, and make you a better teacher than you would otherwise have been.

    As an additional side note, not all iPGCEs are equal. I quite rate the one from Sunderland - having mentored a few people through it. It's actually fairly close to the one from home. The Robin Hood outfit, however, is just a horrible joke. If there are good teachers with one of their certificates, my guess is that they would have been equally good with no teaching quals at all.
    dumbbells66 likes this.
  3. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    anyone met any truly terrible teachers that have a "proper" PGCE ??????.... I have met loads. nearly all the people I have met and worked with that have an iPGCE are qualified in their own country, it's just been that their own country isn't necessarily well recognised internationally. perhaps @february31st has more experience of "lower" quality teachers due to where they are working and the standard of school they are working at :p

    I have an old student teacher of mine that did the iPGCE that is now the head of a department in a school that most people on here would sell their own grandmother to get a job at. he is awesome.
    Bill8899 likes this.
  4. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    The question asked was;

    "Has anybody with an iPGCE stood up at a parent's teacher meeting and told everyone that they are not qualified to teach in their home country?"

    Not interested in distractions from my question! I have asked this question before a couple of time and still not had anyone with iPGCE admitted to doing what I have asked.

    Yes/No answers will do, no distract or discredit allowed.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  5. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    I will go back to my response... everyone I know with an iPGCE is qualified in their own country. it's just that their country may not necessarily be recognised on the international circuit. saying that, have you seen how the Americans class a "qualification" to teach ????.... I would take an iPGCE any day over that.
  6. BarryRiley

    BarryRiley New commenter

    It's not a serious question though. Why on earth would someone stand up in the middle of a parent meeting and say this, or anything else?
    Bill8899 likes this.
  7. Bill8899

    Bill8899 New commenter

    No. No one would say that. Your red herring question is a misstatement. Academies, free, private, and independent schools can hire teachers without QTS. QTS is only required to work in state schools. You know, the schools no one wants to work in.

    It’s a poorly worded question.

    Now, what’s the penalty for distraction or discredit?
    dumbbells66 likes this.
  8. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    I will take it as a NO to my question unless someone tells me differently. I will leave it to readers to draw their own conclusions to why teachers with iPGCE's don't tell the parents of the children they are teaching.
  9. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    i give up o_O
  10. BarryRiley

    BarryRiley New commenter

    Imagine this guy teaching your kids with this level of skill in a basic discussion. And to think his biggest worry is QTS
    Bill8899 and dumbbells66 like this.
  11. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Of course most fee-paying parents want their little darlings to be taught by very experienced, multi-talented and well-qualified teachers, preferably with a PhD and with lots of other letters after their names. I would have thought that this goes without saying. However, the reality is that some international schools might sometimes struggle to attract the teachers that they want to hire, for all kinds of reasons. The iPGCE might not be an ideal qualification, but then again we live in a world that is far from ideal and I ought to have marked my Grade 4 students' books by now and put up a new display. I am sure that some teachers with an iPGCE would have preferred to go back to the UK to do the "real thing", but hey, there could be all sorts of reasons why that might not be an option.
    Bill8899 likes this.
  12. yasf

    yasf Established commenter

    Yes, and they vary wildly. The online routes which provide certification in what they often refer to as 'the red states' can be shonky, to say the least. Those who have qualified properly in California or New York seem very similarly trained and experienced to other countries. That said, there do seem to be some natural teachers who do well almost regardless of their training route. I still wouldn't recommend the Robin Hood iPGCE though - a complete waste of time and money! Talk about stealing from the poor to give to the rich !
  13. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    I havent actually met a Brit that has done an iPGCE. A lot from other countries, but then i have worked at good schools. Possibly why @february31st have such different experiences of it, and they people that have done it.
  14. twisty08

    twisty08 New commenter

    When I was teaching at the main international school in Luanda, Angola, I encountered someone with an iPGCE. As expected, their teaching was mediocre at best.

    The overall standards of the school weren't the best though, so this teacher was "good enough". The lesson? An iPGCE can be good enough to get your foot in the door at a lower tier school in a less desirable location.

    After that it's up to you to learn on the job and try to move up the ladder. Believe me, you don't want to be stuck in a place like Luanda for too long!
  15. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    EVERYONE knows why.... Even the iPGCE corner CANNOT deny that they will lose their jobs because those unsuspecting and hard working parents would go "***, we're out of here."

    You can imagine the advertising line,

    "Quality education provided by unqualified teachers."
  16. BarryRiley

    BarryRiley New commenter

    But they are qualified. As in they have a teaching qualification. They're just not qualified to teach in UK state schools.

    That's like saying someone who is not qualified to teach in a specific Indian state is an unqualified teacher internationally.

    Are you saying that a parent would pull their child out of school because the teacher with consistent outstanding lesson observations and a history of excellent results was not qualified to teach in the state schools of a different country?

    I have a regular run-of-the-mill PGCE. Some of the people on my course we're absolutely terrible. They couldn't teach with a gun to their heads. They all passed though because it's almost impossible to fail a PGCE. One English teacher I know failed the English skills test twice. It's the least rigorous qualification I've ever come across.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
    Bill8899 and dumbbells66 like this.
  17. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    So what happens to the financial package offered to teachers with influx of candidates with IPGCE'S onto the market.

    At the moment teacher's with IPGCE'S are hiding in the heard and obtaining the financial rewards of traditional qualified teachers without the rigor of obtaining QTS themselves.

    Once the numbers of teachers with IPGCE'S increases past a certain point the bubble will burst and the backlash will begin. Thousands of unqualified teachers hitting the market is just reducing the professional standards of education in schools.

    A quick search found 7 universities printing iPGCE'S, next year it will be 20 and this is a threat to my profession as I see it.

    Going now to throw my clogs into the machine.
  18. Mr_Frosty

    Mr_Frosty Established commenter

    If you don't feel you can compete with people you consider 'unqualified' then you probably should hang up your gloves or whatever.

    I'm not too worried about it, there will be some great iPGCE teachers who beat me to jobs and deserve to, and there will be more that wont. Ultimately after the first few years I think experience and attitude counts for more than what bit of paper people have, but a traditional PCGE would definitely make starting your career easier, both in terms of job hunting and being in the classroom, in my opinion.
    T0nyGT likes this.
  19. Oli_K

    Oli_K New commenter

    Just to add my views on the PGCEi, I am a qualified teacher, when we first moved abroad in 2009, my wife who wasn't a teacher did the PGCEi from Nottingham whilst she was working in the boarding house of the school. She had a really good university mentor, of who see met for a week (The rest was online), the school also played a active part in the process (Even though they didn't have too) and gave her a teaching mentor, who worked with her, observed her lessons etc (Similar to a PGCE in the UK). She has worked hard to get her teaching up to standard and has now taught for the last 10 years in some three very good schools internationally (Once as a HOY) and even got teaching jobs in the UK (She did supply and they were impressed with her, so offered her a permanent job, even though she didn't have QTS).

    I think the qualification is as much about the person, it is up to the school employing them to look at the person, take references, watch them teach, before offering them a job.

    I can see both sides and have concerns about this course, but it has worked out for us and she has become a really good teacher, but was lucky to have the support (and worked some really good teachers since) when she did the course.
  20. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    Let us change the marketing line for you:

    Quality education provided by teachers who are unqualified to teach in schools in following countries:

    - all schools NZ
    - any schools in the USA
    - any schools Ireland
    - ZERO, yes £0.00 fee schools in England
    - Scotland
    - Wales
    - definitely any schools in Australia

    Come and enrol in our western education...

    iPGCE corner can defend themselves as much as they can. You have to. That is one if the reasons as to why these shortcut routes still exist. The second reason is this, schools dominated by iPGCE teachers work in the mindset of, "the less the parents know, the better."

    What a way to respect the very hand that feeds a teacher and thier families.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019

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