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PGCE Post-16 (QLTS) vs Pre 16 NQT and QTS ; Is it Discrimination

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by LyndaB52, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. LyndaB52

    LyndaB52 New commenter

    I work in Offender Learning with YP aged 13-17. 80% of our cohort are 15+ and 50% and 16+. However, post-16 PGCE teachers with QTLS are paid less than Pre-16 QTS, and applications for Senior Teaching roles are limited to teachers with Pre-16 qualifications.
    NQTs have been interviewed and appointed to Senior posts, but even though I have PGCE Post-16 QTLS status; PSHE CPD (HE4) and7 years teaching experience in this setting - I was told that I did not have the necessary pre-16 teaching qualification. Is this discriminatory?
  2. phatsals

    phatsals Senior commenter

    No. You wouldn;t be able to teach as a Qualified Teacher in Secondary without QTS and you need K3 and KS4 training.
    Find a way of getting QTS rather than look for a loophole.
  3. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    Discrimination on what grounds?
  4. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    I've never understood why people take the Post 16 qualification, knowing that it only qualifies them for that age group, whereas the ITT with QTS allows you to teach in all age sectors.
    It's not discrimination: you simply don't have the correct qualification for the range of key Stages catered for at your school.
  5. 'I've never understood why people take the Post 16 qualification, knowing that it only qualifies them for that age group, whereas the ITT with QTS allows you to teach in all age sectors.'
    For the same reason that I've never understood why some people assume that school teaching is the be all and end all and that those who can't or won't shouldn't teach!
    Not everyone wants or feels able to teach primary and secondary school children, you know. However, I do agree with you that there are far too many people who like the idea of teaching post 16s 'because they want to be there' but actually have no idea about what the difference is between the different types of teaching qualifications and then whinge that it's not what they expected and that they can't get a job and that they should have done the secondary instead.
    By the way, what I've said doesn't apply to the OP. Jubilee's right. It's not discriminatory because technically speaking, you're not even legally qualified to be there on a permenant basis, let alone be paid the same as a school teacher! I hate this particular law as applied to teaching post 16 students in a school environment but that's life, unfortunately! Maybe the law will change once the leaving age goes up! In the meantime, you might wish to consider doing a secondary teaching course which will give you the necessary QTS (e.g. the GTP).
  6. PS. Forgot to add that if YP is the same as a PRU, that's why QTS is still an issue. If you're working in an adult prison, then you are qualified and that would be discrimination.
  7. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    Again, discrimination on what grounds?
  8. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    If the institution were Post 16 only, QTS would not be required and anyone with the Post 16 qualification would have the necessary certification. It would be discrimination, in those circumstances, to prevent those without QTS from applying for senior roles.
    It's the existence of under 16 year old students in the OPs place of work that gives those with QTS an advantage.
    I never looked into the Post 16 qualification but a friend's daughter gained the qualification whilst working as a learning mentor ina college. I understand that the training was less time consuming than a f/t PGCE.
    Those doing a PGCE (Secondary) cover Post 16 as well as 11-16 and they also observe in Primary settings and study the National Curriculum that encompasses all age ranges. Many KS3 pupils function at average KS1 and 2 levels.
    Those with a Post 16 teaching qualification, are not inducted into the broad range covered ona PGCE. They are also only trained for the post-obligatory phase of education.
  9. On the grounds that she wouldn't be paid on the national 8 point scale in line with colleagues in other post 16 settings.

  10. By the way, jubilee! I'm just sounding off here and trying to explain some of the reasons why I and the OP have a thing about our pay in FE. I'm not having a go at you or any other posters on this thread in particular.
  11. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Sorry to give bad news.
    The holder of a QTS can do a conversion short course to gain QTLS to teach post-16. But the opposite is not true.
    Once you have a QTLS, you cannot convert it to QTS, and cannot do a PGCE to gain QTS on state funding. Presumably you could do it if you funded it entirely yourself, although I'm not sure of that.
    It's all very frustrating for you, I know.
    Best wishes
    TheoGriff. Member of the TES Careers Advice Service.
    The TES Careers Advice service runs seminars, one-to-one careers and applications advice, one-to-one interview coaching and an application review service.
    I shall be doing Application and Interview one-to-ones, and also contributing to the Job Application Seminars and Weekend Workshops over February half term. We shall be looking at application letters, executive summaries and interviews.
    The next Weekend Workshop on applications is on Sunday 23rd January. Contact advice@tes.co.uk for more details on all of these.
    Look forward to seeing you!
  12. Isn't the "Assessment Only" route for QTS ( a shortened route for FE teachers who are working in secondary teaching) still open then? I read about it on the FE forum but it seems those who used to be knowledgeable on it have gone elsewhere now. Cant suggest more but I think it was run ( and still seems to be according to an internet search) by the university of Gloucester. Hope that might help.

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