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PGCE (LLS) converting to QTS

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by rachbell, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. OK, so I've just been reading some of the many QTS/QTLS debates but nothing seems to answer my question, so if anyone knows (no-one I've spoken to has any idea!) please update me:

    I'm currently doing a 1 year professional graduate certificate in education (lifelong learning sector) at level 6 which will make me eligible for QTLS next academic year. However, because the government have not yet put into law the rules about QTLS in schools (I know it's apparently due in April...) I want to consider applying for QTS. Does anybody know exactly what I would need to do? Surely not another PGCE/GTP. Our course covers the issues of classroom management, wider profressional practice, SOW, session planning, observed teaching session, etc that another post-er raised as being a different between those who can get QTS and those who can get QTLS. Is there a more simple procedure?

    I'm really confused. When we signed up for the course the information we were given was, though in good faith, not very accurate and ultimately rather misleading. Now, no-one on the PGCE seems to know exactly what we can do at the end of it.


    Thanks in advance...
  2. The key thing to understand here is that, unlike QTLS, the principle is that QTS must be achieved before you enter the school classroom by yourself, (at least in most state-maintained schools, although that is being eroded). This is in order to protect children from bad teachers (not that this always works, but it is the principle). QTS and QTLS measure different things in different ways.
    Therefore the QTS standards are mapped into the PGCEs, BEds etc that are intended for those planning to teach in schools. This enables those taking these courses to become fully qualified to teach in schools from the off, but it requires more work from the course provider and trainee teacher alike, (all those standards have to be evidenced and assessed).
    Your course provider has not done the necessary standards mapping, and although you may have studied classroom behaviour, and even demonstrated your ability, your provider has no mechanism for assessing whether or not you meet the QTS standards in this, or any other, respect.
    The basic principle (that QTS is required before you teach school children) makes it very difficult both in theory and practice to gain QTS by any other route than via a PGCE/BEd with QTS, because how else could you get the opportunity to demonstrate the standards?
    I'd like to say wait on until QTLS/QTS parity is formalised, but unless you teach an unusual subject, you are likely to be up against other NQTs who do have QTS when applying for school teaching jobs, and this might put you at a disadvantage.
    And it is worth pointing out that QTS/QTLS parity was only intended to enable those who qualified in FE, teaching subjects not normally taught in schools, to teach those subjects (engineering, catering, psychology etc.) in schools on the same basis. It was never intended to provide an alternative route into school teaching for mainstream subjects.
    In short it is a mistake to take a PGCE without QTS unless you are really certain that you don't want to teach in schools, and it's a mistake that has no easy remedy, if at all.
    If your provider did not make this clear to you, or gave you the impression that the course gives you a route into school teaching via QTLS/QTS parity, then I think you should complain and possibly ask for your money back.
  3. Hi rachbell
    I've answered this question before but here goes anyway. You have 2 options:
    1. Do the GTP at a school where you successfully get a job as an unqualified instructor (this is assuming that this will happen because the job situation is sticky atm and you will be cmpeting with unemployed Secondary Teachers as well).
    2. Do the University of Gloucstershire AOB distance learning course to QTS.
    NB. Option 2 is only an option for you if you will have been teaching for at least 2 years at the time when the course finishes, so in your case, it's option 1, I'm afraid.
    By the way, like Shirt and Tie, I'm puzzled. If you and your fellow tutees know that you want to teach in a school, why didn't you apply for a Secondary PGCE (as your degree is in Law, I assume that this is the type of school in which you wish to work)?
    You may ask why I'm in a similar position to you and am asking you this question. The answer is that I knew that I definitely wanted to teach Psychology to post 16 students rather than secondary as this age range suits me and I knew perfectly well that I wouldn't be qualified to teach in a school BUT since qualifying, more and more schools are offering A-Level Psychology and Psychology Teaching jobs are harder to come by, so once I found out that the law was actually grey rather than black in my case, I decided to consider that possibility. I've since worked in 2 schools and would now be perfectly happy to teach A-Level Psychology in a school, if no other jobs were available. I'm therefore very pleased about the proposed change in the law.
    HTH and good luck with whatever you decide to do!

  4. hello. i have just read this and my husband and i are in the same boat.... we are just finishing PGCE LLS and we are musicians.... the same applies about "it suited us" and that was what the music service wanted blagh blagh blagh.... you have written at the bottom about universities offering a course to help gain the QTS.... do you know which ones and where. a friend also told me OU also has a small conversion course *which they are ending as they thought it wasn't needed due to QTLS and QTS being one and the same since April...) and this is the last year for GTP.... as well as a school told me that would need to do ANOTHER PGCE course for a year... BUT because of the college mark, will have to work for free for a year and pay £9000.... which also means only one of us can do it..... so anyway.... did you find out which unis are offering this? thank you
  5. http://www.ifl.ac.uk/newsandevents/latest/qtls-and-qts all the information is on IFL's website
  6. Absolutely!
    When I began I knew I had no intention of ever teaching in a school. I knew that the money etc would be less in FE but that there would be some benefits, less paperwork etc. as my sister is a teacher.
    BUT I would always advise anyone thinking about it to take on the PGCE that leads to QTS.
  7. That is why DTLLS was invented with the IfL behind it!
  8. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    I think you are mistaken.
    PGCE can and often is taken by FE lecturers in service and of course as the majority are graduates anyway what is there to stop them?
    I took mine in the early eighties and this was a full time stand alone course where we all completed the same subjects, examinations and assessments. The only difference being where we took our teaching practice.
    Perhaps I am out of time but it it made perfect sense then so why not now?
  9. In my current job there are a number of people taking a PGCE - half of them one that leads to QTS! All financially supported by the College.
    The only difference is where they go to be taught and we have 2 partner colleges and the staff choose where to go after having a long conversation with HR (if they are sensible and well advised that is)!
    Where I used to work you were encouraged to do the C+G CFET and the the C/P/DTLLS in house, but that was also negotiable!

  10. Hello Rach.

    Firstly, I would like to say I understand that your last message is over a year old, but thought I would reply as I have also found the whole system very confusing!

    I am currently doing a PGCE in the Lifelong Learning Sector part time over 2 years, so I will apply for QTLS status the same as you. The current situation is that QLTS and QTS have now been recognised as equal in terms of their value as a teaching qualification.
    While you cannot teach in a school with QLTS, as long as you are a member of the Institute for Learning (IfL) and do so many hours of PD every year, you will be treated as holding QTS status, which in effect means you are eligible to teach in schools in England.

    If you go in the IfL website, they give a more detailed explanation...but the long and the short of it is that QLTS holders are now recognised as being as 'good' teachers as those holding QLTS.

    However, in my situation, this matter is far more complex as I am doing my PGCE in Wales and here the same recognition has not been granted. This leaves me in a very tough situation of either staying in Wales and possibly struggling to find a job, or taking a huge life decision and moving away for work...quite a big decision to make for someone who has lived in rural West Wales all my life!!

    Anyway, I hope this has helped you as I have gone through months of confusion also!!


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