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PGCE/ Cert Ed QTLS

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by TTruffles, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. Hi everyone, I am new to the website and new to the whole 'DTLLS/Cert Ed' thing so please excuse me if I come across as very confused. I know you guys are probably bored half to death with endless questions around the FE qualifications but I hope you appreciate how bloody confusing this all is to someone relatively new to this system!
    Basically, after doing my GCSEs (studied 11), AS and A Levels (three of each) I went to Bangor University in 2004 to study English Language and Literature and Sociology as a degree. This was done full time and though I really enjoyed what I learnt I left university in June 2007 40 credits short of a whole degree (stupid - I know!). I am now 23 years old and I am desperate to teach. I have vast experience in the teaching industry; I have worked as a teaching assistant for six months, in a supplementary school for 14-19 year olds for two years and as a tutor on a regular basis. I also volunteer in my spare time; working with children with various disabilities (I have CACDP certificates in BSL) in an educational and recreational centre and as a youth worker for Central London Youth Development - a youth organisation. I even helped 'found' a homework club in a disadvantaged area of London with 11 other girls I knew from school. It was a pilot scheme and we managed to get National Lottery funding so it could run permenantly. I am hoping to a scheme like this again for young adults with disabilities.
    LOL, sorry it sounds like a job application. Basically, without my full degree I can't even think about applying for a PGCE in secondary education. I was disappointed but then realised I could go into Further Education where my experience and qualifications would be appreciated. I can't go back to university to finish my credits and get a PGCE with QTS as I simply can't afford to. I live in a Women's Refuge, work part time in a department store so I have access to very little funds. Training to teach Further Education would be a lot easier for me and most importantly something I would enjoy doing - I love teaching and I am eager to start! However, being naturally suspcious the PGCE/Cert Ed seems to good to be true so I have some questions for those in the know.
    Firstly, what is the difference between the Cert Ed and the DTLLS? What would make me better qualified to teach in FE and what I would be realistically allow to study with my level of qualifications? I have researched and noticed that a lot of universities offer the Cert Ed/PCET, is is better to do these than the DTLLS? Does it lead to QTLS?
    Can I get funding for training? Universities expect fees of £3,000 usually which I cannot afford without some help! I want to teach English as a specialist subject, but they are no specialst Cert Ed courses that do this - so how can I make English my specialist subject? Ideally I would like to get my QTLS in a year (hope to do any courses full time), is that at all possible with my level of qualifications?
    And what is the major difference between PGCE FE and a Cert ED QTLS/FE (apart from the obvious)? Because they seem to lead to the same thing - enabling you to teach in a further education institution.
    Sorry this is kind of long winded - it isn't even a summary of everything I want to ask and say! Hope you can help, I've noticed when browsing the website that the Cert Ed is looked down upon by those with QTS but I love teaching and feel that the letters of a qualification aren't the most important thing. It is what your course teaches you in the process that matters.
     
  2. Hi everyone, I am new to the website and new to the whole 'DTLLS/Cert Ed' thing so please excuse me if I come across as very confused. I know you guys are probably bored half to death with endless questions around the FE qualifications but I hope you appreciate how bloody confusing this all is to someone relatively new to this system!
    Basically, after doing my GCSEs (studied 11), AS and A Levels (three of each) I went to Bangor University in 2004 to study English Language and Literature and Sociology as a degree. This was done full time and though I really enjoyed what I learnt I left university in June 2007 40 credits short of a whole degree (stupid - I know!). I am now 23 years old and I am desperate to teach. I have vast experience in the teaching industry; I have worked as a teaching assistant for six months, in a supplementary school for 14-19 year olds for two years and as a tutor on a regular basis. I also volunteer in my spare time; working with children with various disabilities (I have CACDP certificates in BSL) in an educational and recreational centre and as a youth worker for Central London Youth Development - a youth organisation. I even helped 'found' a homework club in a disadvantaged area of London with 11 other girls I knew from school. It was a pilot scheme and we managed to get National Lottery funding so it could run permenantly. I am hoping to a scheme like this again for young adults with disabilities.
    LOL, sorry it sounds like a job application. Basically, without my full degree I can't even think about applying for a PGCE in secondary education. I was disappointed but then realised I could go into Further Education where my experience and qualifications would be appreciated. I can't go back to university to finish my credits and get a PGCE with QTS as I simply can't afford to. I live in a Women's Refuge, work part time in a department store so I have access to very little funds. Training to teach Further Education would be a lot easier for me and most importantly something I would enjoy doing - I love teaching and I am eager to start! However, being naturally suspcious the PGCE/Cert Ed seems to good to be true so I have some questions for those in the know.
    Firstly, what is the difference between the Cert Ed and the DTLLS? What would make me better qualified to teach in FE and what I would be realistically allow to study with my level of qualifications? I have researched and noticed that a lot of universities offer the Cert Ed/PCET, is is better to do these than the DTLLS? Does it lead to QTLS?
    Can I get funding for training? Universities expect fees of £3,000 usually which I cannot afford without some help! I want to teach English as a specialist subject, but they are no specialst Cert Ed courses that do this - so how can I make English my specialist subject? Ideally I would like to get my QTLS in a year (hope to do any courses full time), is that at all possible with my level of qualifications?
    And what is the major difference between PGCE FE and a Cert ED QTLS/FE (apart from the obvious)? Because they seem to lead to the same thing - enabling you to teach in a further education institution.
    Sorry this is kind of long winded - it isn't even a summary of everything I want to ask and say! Hope you can help, I've noticed when browsing the website that the Cert Ed is looked down upon by those with QTS but I love teaching and feel that the letters of a qualification aren't the most important thing. It is what your course teaches you in the process that matters.
     
  3. Hi there- first of all- don't worry! It took me ages to work out how to qualify in Literacy! But from some of the posts on here, I'm not alone- it's mind boggling! Somebody should be along soon to help.
    Here is an article in The Guardian that may give you a good starter:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2007/oct/09/guardianextra3.guardianspecial68
     
  4. Thanks Matineeidol! My friend and I found that article yesterday and after understanding a bit more about it I am now guessing I should be doing the PCE and working at Level 6 as opposed to Level 5...
    Thing is, most universities and colleges I have found only do it at Level 5, but that is at a minimum (sp). I have applied for loads over Friday and Saturday specifically at universities so I can do it in a year. Hopefully they can clue me up and tell me if I can work for a Level 6 taking my individual qualifications into account.

    How did you qualify?
     
  5. I've not qualified yet- I'm only just taking my PTLLS. but the way I understand it, is that for literacy, I need to do this PTLLS, then get some work experience, then when i can get the teaching/volunteering hours, I can do the DTLLS. I, like you, can't find a post-compulsory PGCE in my area either. I'm unsure what you mean when you say you want to teach "English". I've seen courses for literacy and ESOL, y'see. All at level 5. Maybe somebody will come along to enlighten us.
     
  6. Oh, btw, I'm not sure the level matters. I think what you need is level 5 diploma, irrespective of prior qualifications. I have an English Language degree (level 6?) but even if I had done a masters or PhD in linguistics or whatever, to teach, I still need the level 5 certificate. If you get me...? :)
     
  7. I get you, the DTLLS is the awarding qualification and set at Level 5....?
    I found a few courses but not very close to my area (I am South East), they are all full time and at university. I don't know if they are right for me though, the one at Oxford Brookes is the best but it is FAR too much of a long journey to commute.
     
  8. Ah interesting. I'd never considered "English" per se, as a subject, but then I'm more interested in the literacy aspect of it. I'd be interested to hear responses. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to make a sticky on these forums about how to qualify? Really, you see so many posts all asking the same thing.

     
  9. They really should 'sticky' the topic - I am still pretty confused! I am guessing that I have to do a Certificate in Education which will lead to QLTS and then I can teach in a college. I do this at university and it will take a year.
    Are you teaching as an unqualified tutor in a FE institution at the moment Matineeidol? I am guessing you could take the same route as well.
     
  10. The post comp PGCE is sort of being phased out by the new Diploma (PTTLS CTTLS DTTLS) in lots of places. I can't remember whether it is supposed to be a complete replacement or an alternative though!

    Just grab what you can and work your way up - I did, with the FENTO standards CFET, that was definitely replaced by the new Diploma. Most of my FE only coleagues did simialr, very few have a PGCE FE.

    Good luck both!
     
  11. Thanks pobble- I've always found your posts on this forum really helpful and informative and i've had a read through your contributions on some of the threads and they've given me a good idea of what to expect now. One question though- what IS a certificate in/of education that i see mentioned on job adverts and the one this lady is talking about here? How does this differ to DTLLS/PGCE post comp/ CTLLS?
     
  12. After much exhausative research I think I know what some of it means: CTLLS leads on to DTLLS which is the same thing as the 'Professional Certificate of Education', the name jusst varies from establishment to establishment. They all lead to the same thing in the end, you can teach in a further education establishment or setting.
    PGCE, PCE and DTLLS are done on a different level with PGCE being the highest at 7 and the PCE at 6 (usually) and DTLLS at a minimum of level 5.
     
  13. Hi,

    I started teaching full time in a FE College two years ago and I'm just completing my PGCE(LLS:DTTLS) (try saying that with a fruit pastille in your mouth). I'm on year 2, in-service P/T with the University of Greenwich. Hopefully, if I've read your post correctly the following should clarify things for you. This is how Greenwich differentiate the courses:

    PGCE(LLS:DTTLS) - Post grad qualification, requires a degree or equivalent to follow the programme

    PCE(LLS:DTTLS) - Non-graduate programme

    CTC(LLS:CTTLS) - Certificate in Teaching Competence. Available for those following an associate teacher role

    As far as I can see, the award structure is identical for the PGCE and PCE at QCF Level 5, so there appears to be no issue with you not holding a completed first degree.

    CTC closely follows the DTTLS structure in year one, with a reduced number of summative assessments at QCF Level 4.

    Not provided through Greenwich is PTTLS, a City and Guilds 7303 course which is an introduction to teaching and contributes towards licensed practitioner status through the IfL. City and Guilds suggest their may be funding for this course from your local LSC.

    I qualified for a maintenance grant, which matched the course fees, so the cost was neutral for me (the college may have paid additional fees). Fortunately, my college undertakes teacher training under the umbrella of Greenwich, so I didn?t have far to go, but they also offer a distance learning mode, which would also be an option for you to consider.

    From my perspective, it has been an excellent course to follow. In the first year taught components, I often found myself feeling like the kid in the sweet shop, suddenly being exposed to all new tools of the trade, strategies for teaching, learning and classroom management. It made my first year of teaching a pleasure. Second year re-introduced me to the rigours of academic study, a skill that had become very rusty in my mid 30s, but nonetheless, has broadened my awareness and deepened my understanding of teaching in the lifelong learning sector.

    I hope this helps,

    Gordie
     
  14. You can do a Cert Ed for 1 year full time at Uni and this would mean you got QTLS and could teach in FE :) Its the best thing I ever did. Good luck!
     
  15. PGCE and Cert Ed for FE are EXACTLY the same course, people in my uni class were getting both of these quals at the end. Whether you get a certificate at the end saying PGCE or Cert Ed depends on what qualifications you got previously. If you hold an honours degree you get PGCE, if you hold a NVQ4 or Foundation Degree for example, you get awarded with a Cert Ed. Hope this helps.
     
  16. Just want to thank you lot are the forum for all your help! I went along to an interview at Greenwich University on Friday (very last minute) and won a place on the PCE course! Thanks to the advice I got here I went along to the interview with a great deal more understanding of the qualification and what is expected of me.

    I think Greenwich now do PTLLS as a module now so it will be a relief not having to arrange to go to a college to do the PTLLS seperately. Most of those who were at the interview with me were degree holders doing the PGCE-FE, so for those who say that PGCE-FE is an easy route and 'worthless' it simply isn't true. No, we can't work in a secondary school but many of the other prospective students with me didn't want to (I wouldn't mind either way, though it is being viewed as a potential suspect that has now put me off working in a primary school). I also realised that though I do not have a degree I will be just as valued as a prospective teacher by my tutors and lecturers.

    I am so eager to start the training, it is all so exciting!
     
  17. Congratulations and good luck with the course, TT.
     
  18. Hi All

    I'm thinking about doing my PGCE in Numeracy this September. Can anyone tell me what books they read in advance or books that helped them on the course?




    Also, if anyone did the PGCE in Numeracy at Uni of Greenwich or Institute of Education how did you find it?




    Finally, if you completed your PGCE in Numeracy where did you find work? How easy was it to get a job?
     


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    <h1><u>Suggested Reading List</u></h1>







    Avis, J., Fisher, R., Thompson, R. (2010) Teaching in Lifelong Learning, Maidenhead
    OU Press





    Corder, N. (2008) Learning
    to Teach Adults: An Introduction 2nd Ed



    London:
    Routledge





    Eastwood, L. et al (2009) A Toolkit for Creative Teaching in Post Compulsory Education,
    Maidenhead, OU Press





    Gravells, A. and Simpson, S. (2008) Planning and Enabling Learning in the Lifelong Learning Sector


    : Learning Matters Ltd





    Minton, D. (2005) Teaching
    Skills in Further and Adult Education.
    Revised 3rd ed.


    MacMillan/City & Guilds





    Petty, G. (2004) Teaching
    Today: a Practical Guide
    3rd ed.


    : Nelson Thornes





    Race, P. (2005) Making
    Learning Happen



    : Sage





    Reece, I. and Walker,
    S. (2007) Teaching, Training and
    Learning: a practical guide.
    6th ed. Sunderland:
    Business Education Publishers.





    Scales, P. (2008) Teaching in the Lifelong Learning Sector.



    Maidenhead: Open University Press





    Wallace, S. (2007) Teaching,
    Tutoring and Training in the Lifelong Learning
    Sector. 3rd ed.


    : Learning Matters Ltd





    Wilson, L. (2009) Practical
    Teaching: A Guide to PTLLS & DTLLS
    .


    : Cengage Learning








    Websites





    Geoff Petty : www.geoffpetty.com





    Study Skills :


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/learning/subjects/adult_learning.shtml


    www.bbc.co.uk/skillwise


    www.move-on.org.uk





    Excellence
    Gateway (resources, support and advice for those working in the post 16
    learning and skills sector): http://www.excellencegateway.org.uk



     

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