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PGCE but no status...

Discussion in 'Secondary' started by Hannadelaney, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. Hannadelaney

    Hannadelaney New commenter

    I graduated from university in July 2014 with a PGCE in post-compulsory education and training. My subject specialism is English and despite having a 2:1 Literature degree, a Masters in Literature, three years of experience teaching English at KS3,4 and 5 in both temp and permanent jobs, I feel that I am at risk of not getting decent jobs in schools because I don't have QTS.
    Is this the case? I want to teach in secondary schools after trying FE and I preferred my time in schools but I don't even get an interview for some.
    I don't want to do another PGCE because that would be a waste of my time and money. Do schools really have the freedom to employ who they want? I hate ticking the 'unqualified' box because I have the qualifications, just not those three damn letters...
     
  2. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

  3. Hannadelaney

    Hannadelaney New commenter

    This is definitely an option but you need to be employed in a school first. It's hard to tell them about it in case they don't want the bother.
     
  4. jamtart20

    jamtart20 New commenter

    I would contact the provider where you gained your PGCE and ask them if you have been given QTS as that is normally what happens.

    I've never come across the situation where you gain PGCE and not QTS except in the following circumstance. There are courses out there which offer the PGCE but they require that you have QTS already.

    I assume you had to do school based training to get your PGCE, in which case you should have been awarded QTS. Perhaps the provider has made an error or there is a misunderstanding on your part (I'm not meaning that to sound flippant).

    Whatever the situation, let us know what happens. Good luck with this.
     
  5. PaulDG

    PaulDG Occasional commenter

    The OP has stated she has completed a PGCE in post-compulsory education.

    Those don't generally confer QTS as the whole point in getting them is that you have no intention of teaching in a school.
     
  6. PaulDG

    PaulDG Occasional commenter

    Yes. Some schools will want to only employ qualified teachers or will, at least, give preference to qualified teachers in their selection process.

    By and large. The only people schools can't employ as teachers are those barred from teaching or those who have failed NQT Induction. Other than that, they can employ who they like though most tend to prefer to employ qualified teachers when they have a choice.

    But you don't have the "qualifications". The qualification that was once mandatory and remains preferred is "QTS" and you chose to take a course that didn't provide it.
     
    wanet likes this.
  7. Hannadelaney

    Hannadelaney New commenter

    My course was training to deliver education for 14-19 and adults. I've only worked in secondary schools and sixth form colleges as I specialise in GCSE and A level.
    I'm still going to apply at schools but yes I do realise that there's nothing that can be done if you have spent 9k on a course that didn't provide QTS (stupidly assumed it would seen as it was a PGCE with the same price tag as any other).
    I have contacted the University and they were useless. Told me to do another PGCE.
    I just wanted to know what the odds are. I'd happily complete the assessment only route if I had a school to be assessed at.
     
  8. PaulDG

    PaulDG Occasional commenter

    (TBH, I'm not sure you can do another PGCE even if you did want to as the actual fee is almost certainly higher than £9K but is subsidised. Even if that's not the case, I don't think you'd get another loan.)

    Free schools and new academies are likely to be interested in you though - many teachers avoid both for political reasons - it's possible to do the experience only route with either.
     
  9. Hannadelaney

    Hannadelaney New commenter

    Manchester Grammar school hire 'unqualified' teachers. Private schools do too. I am looking into QTLS as it is a portfolio based way of achieving qualified status. My PGCE was rigorous and I trained to meet the same standards as a school teacher. Ofsted grade us with the same criteria as schools as we teach young people (as young as 14) and vulnerable adults. The line is blurring as time goes on. The DfE saw no problem with me getting a QTS assessment as I'm experienced but getting a school to fund the £3000 is a challenge.
    I'm still going to try to work in schools as I've made it to interview a few times. I posted on here to try and find people who were or had been in a similar situation as me and could shed some light on the transition process.
    Hopefully they'll respond soon.
     
  10. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    The thing is, you are asking a school to fork out an extra £3000 for a teacher with no experience of teaching KS3 and no training or qualification to do so.

    Independent schools hire unqualified teachers in the sense of sports and music experts and coaches, or people who started teaching a zillion years ago when the rules were different. They tend not to appoint people with no experience at all and no knowledge of whether they would actually be any good at it.

    'Decent' schools of the kind you are hoping for are not generally short of applicants to teach English and you'll have a hard time convincing them you are the best applicant.
     
  11. Hannadelaney

    Hannadelaney New commenter

    I did say in my original post that I have been teaching KS3,4 and 5 for three years.


    Thank you for your opinion.
     
  12. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    It isn't so much opinion as a statement of how things are, it would be remiss to tell you otherwise.

    All schools could appoint you as an unqualified teacher, so it isn't pointless applying. However for that extra £3000 they could get a more experienced teacher; or possibly someone with all your qualifications and qts. Independent schools, and increasingly good state schools, have to sell themselves to parents, and an unqualified English teacher isn't ideal.

    You could consider applying to a less than decent academy, who will have far fewer applicants, but extra money from their sponsor, in order to get a post to qualify. Then move on to the sort of place you want to teach once you have qts. Not ideal I know...
     
  13. Hannadelaney

    Hannadelaney New commenter

    I would much rather pay it myself in that case.

    I can't stand all the confusion over this QTS/QTLS/Unqualified nonsense. You've got teachers in private schools don't always have QTS and the parents don't see cause for alarm. I knew an English teacher at one of these lesser academies who didn't read anything. She flicked through gossip mags and used a teachit resource pack to get through the syllabus. She was ok though because she had QTS. Frustrating.

    There's no easy task ahead, you're right about that. I'm determined enough to get it. That new kitchen will have to wait...
     
  14. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    All the teaching staff bar one in the all the independent schools I know have QTS. (Ok only about 12 schools in 2 counties, and one other school where a friend teaches, but even so...)
    One music teacher doesn't, but has years of experience teaching music privately as well as in schools.
    Some schools do additionally use qualified coaches in PE, but still have at least one PE teacher with QTS.

    None would even consider an English, maths or science teacher without QTS.

    There is no confusion.
    Schools prefer qualified teachers and independents often prefer experience as well.
     
  15. ssaleh21

    ssaleh21 New commenter

    Apply for QTLS. I am in the process of doing it now. I also did the same PGCE you did. A secondary school did employ me as a Science teacher, but again the wage is a lot lower than my colleagues with QTS. I am trying to persuade the school to fork out for the Assessment Only route. Will try for next term. Let us know how you get on.
     
    cazzmusic1 and Hannadelaney like this.
  16. Keels89

    Keels89 New commenter

    Hi Hannah, as above apply for QTLS.

    I did the same as you. I was a little naive when I applied for my PGCE in Post Compulsory. I knew nothing about QTS. Didn't know the importance of the status, didn't know you needed it to work in schools and didn't know it wasn't included in the course.

    Luckily for me, the school I was on placement offered me a job. However I am paid unqualified and appear unqualified on the management structure. In order for me to gain Qualified Teacher Status and for the school to pay me a teachers salary I applied for QTLS through the Society of Education. I think it cost approximately £500, however the school paid this for me. I applied for QTLS back in October and my portfolio is due in at the end of this month. SET have confirmed QTLS will be awarded in April so it is quite a quick turn around but if you are currently teaching you are gathering evidence daily.
     
    cazzmusic1 and Hannadelaney like this.
  17. Hannadelaney

    Hannadelaney New commenter

    I have started the portfolio. Hoping to get it in for the April cycle.
     
  18. Hannadelaney

    Hannadelaney New commenter

    Thanks people. There's obviously a way in.

    The PGCE in post-compulsory felt like a waste of money when I discovered people could get a job in a college with a L5 qualification or lower. Universities should really reconsider their advertising. They are selling you a PGCE that limits you to one sector on paper but do a secondary PGCE and you can teach in two sectors (secondary and FE) which is bonkers. Same price less perks. Feel a fool!
     
  19. Keels89

    Keels89 New commenter

    Couldn't agree more! My school think our PGCE will disappear in the next few years!
     
    Hannadelaney likes this.
  20. Robfreeman

    Robfreeman Occasional commenter

    I withdrew from my first pgce for two reasons which aren't really needed here suffice to say I decided at 21 I believed I didn't have the experience to guide students. However I did manage to get onto another PGCE by way of a SKE course (at 25), I did really well at interview for a biology PGCE and they offered to take me only if I did a physics conversion (which meant doing over a year over a physics degree at the time). Now 29 and doing well in secondary.

    I also then taught in FE after qualifying before returning to secondary because I enjoyed it more yes more work and less holidays but more fun a couple of questions
    1. Did you get QTLS or have you applied for it?
    2. If so did you apply for QTLS prior to March 2013 (This is really important as their are two types of QTLS one can be converted if you know how)?
    3. Have you considered applying for a secondary PGCE from somewhere like Edge hill or Bishop Grossesteste which offer shorted secondary PGCE's for those with experience?
    4. You are aware you will still have to do induction once you have QTS conferred?
     
    Hannadelaney likes this.

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