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Petition: Make it obligatory for teachers to hold Qualified Teaching Status

Discussion in 'Education news' started by FrankWolley, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    Many excellent teachers come from industry, academia and other areas of life - we may not do the PGCE, we come through the old GTP, get a chance perhaps to do the Assessment Only QTS - sorry, I won't sign - define 'unqualified' as teachers with NO qualifications whatsoever and I'll sign, but I hold numerous degrees, Oxford, a PhD and taught at university/EFL and have excellent exam results at secondary. I don't have a PGCE. I also teach a very niche subject and very specialised (Latin) where the PGCE slots are 32. 32 a year, so other avenues into the sector are welcomed (I do have QTS as I did the Assessment Only route but I won't condemn others)

    Reword it and thousands will sign :)
    wanet and Vince_Ulam like this.
  2. hhhh

    hhhh Lead commenter

    One of the best teachers I worked with qualified before you needed a degree or PGCE. Yes, she retired last century-but could still out-teach many of today's paperwork, data and observation obsessed 'teachers'.
    sabrinakat and Mrsmumbles like this.
  3. Mrsmumbles

    Mrsmumbles Star commenter

    Yes I know but I'd still be stuffed up if this came through...need to fine tune the wording!
  4. Mrsmumbles

    Mrsmumbles Star commenter

    Agreed, agreed, agreed! It's all in the wording. I also have no issues with the sadly defunct GTP teachers, who were pretty good in my experience. BUt unqualified staff, former students, relatives of staff and teachfirstfaillaters...yes, I have a BIG problem with them. I've taught twenty years and hit excellent results with a post sixteen PGCE. So shoot me. Not.
  5. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    But the assumption qualified teacher = good teacher is also invalid
  6. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Is that assumption also incorrect when it comes to doctors, pilots, dentists, lawyers, plumbers, electricians etc?

    A degree of training will in no way produce worse teachers, and should produce a better quality of entrant to the profession.

    I would like to see all teachers fully qualified with QTS, preferably through a reasonably rigourous PGCE-style route, and I also feel we should have as high a proportion of subject specialists as possible.
    delnon, cissy3, chelsea2 and 2 others like this.
  7. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    There may be qualified teachers who are rubbish but many applicants who go through a teacher training course will be weeded out or supported if they are struggling.
    wanet likes this.
  8. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I'd like to think so shedman but these days.....who knows ?
    wanet likes this.
  9. redlamp2

    redlamp2 Occasional commenter

    Incompetent doctors = people die
    Incompetent pilots = people die and massive damage
    Incompetent dentist = potential death
    Incompetent lawyer = people lose their liberty
    Incompetent plumbers = significant damage, potential death
    Incompetent electricians = damage and death

    Incompetent teachers = **** lessons and student resits

    The professions don't compare. The better argument is to focus on the needs of the child. No child ever asks for a copy of their teacher's PGCE certificate.
  10. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    All of the competent ones become so because of:

    a) being taught by a good teacher
    b) as a result of experience
    c) never being in a situation were their incompetence became evident.
    les25paul likes this.
  11. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    Incompetent teachers = poor levels of education leading to poor skills and incompetence within the workforce.

    Children don't ask to see a copy of their teacher's PGCE (but at least they will be able to read it thanks to competent teachers) but adult employers do ask to see copies of potential employee's qualifications which they achieved thanks again to competent teachers.

    The professions all compare.
  12. redlamp2

    redlamp2 Occasional commenter


    I'm in favour of good teachers. There are many ways of ascertaining such, qualifications just being one (and in no way a satisfactory one alone).

    So let's compare professions then. Let's compare teaching to... nursing. Nurses need to train for longer, arguably learn more complex knowledge and must pay a fee in order to practice their profession. When they do so they'll be paid less than teachers and very likely be required to pay to use the hospital car park. They will work shifts including unsocial hours. They won't get long holiday periods. Regardless of how tired they may be. Regardless of how stressful they may find their job they will be placed into positions where a bad decision is the difference between life and death.

    The knowledge and procedures required for the job require very specific knowledge and skills. Hence the training, qualification and registration requirements.

    Now let's compare the demands of teaching...
  13. redlamp2

    redlamp2 Occasional commenter

    I know a few plumbers who would take issue with that :rolleyes::D
  14. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    So start demanding that nurses are paid more. Especially practitioner nurses with degrees. Start a petition...I'll sign.

    BTW Why do you think nurses are paid so little? Could it be because most nurses are female? Or perhaps because nursing is often described as a 'vocation'..in other words something people say you want to do so much that they can pay you the minimum? I always rejected the idea that I was in teaching because I had a 'vocation'.
    cissy3 and delnon like this.
  15. redlamp2

    redlamp2 Occasional commenter

    Most teachers are female.

    Teaching is described as a vocation.

    Nurses never went on strike in the way teachers did in the past. .

    I never saw much point in petitions. Seemed more effective to leave nursing and retrain as a teacher.
    delnon likes this.
  16. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Many teachers in secondary schools are male, and therefore there was less pressure in the past to underpay teachers as compared to nurses. (And also worth noting that teaching, esp. at secondary level, has been a graduate profession for much longer - many nurses are still not graduates)

    No-one describes teaching as a vocation in my hearing twice...;)

    And - I'm pleased to say - strikes such as the ones I helped with in my school in the 1980s stopped so many idiots referring to teachers as 'having a vocation as had before...

    And if you can't be bothered to do something for nurses & their pay rather than use it as an excuse to bash teachers, you're basically just trolling here...
  17. redlamp2

    redlamp2 Occasional commenter

    I gave more than ten years of my life to both professions. Is that bothered enough to disqualify me as a "troll"?

    My point was that the comparative argument between professions to justify the obligatory completion of a PGCE is a weak one.

    Brilliant teachers can come from many walks of life. Many of the very best teachers will never undertake teacher training. Instead they teach for a love of their subject. They teach sports every weekend. They teach art during the evenings. They teach people to enjoy and love the countryside.

    The more opportunities to recruit such people into schools, the better. We need excellent teachers - the kind of teachers that regard their job as their vocation. We don't ensure that by the current conveyor belt from school to university to PGCE to teaching.
    sabrinakat likes this.
  18. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Naive. Very naive.

    I love my subject - it's why I went into teaching. But why should you expect me to 'teach sports every weekend'? I'd rather be with my wife and children, thanks. Doesn't make me any less of a subject teacher.

    And I'd also much rather my children were taught by trained teachers, not someone learning on them, thanks.

    Your views - if you are not a troll - are naive and dangerous.
  19. redlamp2

    redlamp2 Occasional commenter

  20. curlyk

    curlyk New commenter

    With an increasing number of Academies gently, or not so gently removing anyone over 55 who probably went through the degree and PGCE route to qualify ,( 5 years of qualifications for me as a MFL teacher, who taught in France for a year as part of my degree), the number of supply staff ,TAs etc being drafted in to `teach` GCSE groups,is increasing .And,of course.two cheap NOTS can be got for one very experienced teacher with a wealth of experience in preparing students for exams and who probably has very few difficulties in controlling a class of teenagers . The consequencies of this deprofessionalisation of teaching are that the number of classes being taught by inexperienced or unqualified `teachers` has shot up, that experienced teachers are hounded out of the profession by means of falsified competency charges etc,or encouraged to take early retirement because they are just too damned expensive and your average state/maintained /academy has a ridiculous amount of staff turnover and a vast amount of instability.By the way,all the qualified graduate nurses I know are on excellent wages and get overtime!!. Children`s life chances can be made or broken by incompetent teachers.Please sign the petition if you believe that teaching is a profession and that all our children deserve to have a qualified and competent teacher in charge of their classroom.
    cissy3, chelsea2, delnon and 2 others like this.

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