1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Peripatetic - time to retire?

Discussion in 'Music' started by ndf81, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Bit of advice needed please..... I've just taken on a new HOD role and was made aware by leaving HOD that one of the Peri's is 78 yrs old, been there 2 decades and now starting to suffer with health issues as he has Parkinson's Disease :( He didn't have the heart to replace him as he'd known him so long, although told me his teaching had gone downhill in the last year or two.
    He is a great guy who comes and plays for our bands etc, and very supportive, but in the last few rehearsals I've noticed he is often in the wrong place and students are nudging him to show where they are etc! I've asked a few of the better students learning with him a few questions about quality of lessons - what they're doing etc, which would have been a perfect opportunity for them to say if they thought anything was wrong, but they all love him :)
    What would you do - is it time he was replaced? Would you wait until he 'retired'. This is his last school, and I think he lives for this job - I hear him on the phone to his wife at the end of the day saying how much he's enjoyed his day, but I worry for the quality of teaching the students are getting. We have an increased demand for his instrument, and rather than adding extra hours to him, this would be a good opportunity to get a new teacher in on a different day to take on new students?
    Any opinions welcome :)
     
  2. Bit of advice needed please..... I've just taken on a new HOD role and was made aware by leaving HOD that one of the Peri's is 78 yrs old, been there 2 decades and now starting to suffer with health issues as he has Parkinson's Disease :( He didn't have the heart to replace him as he'd known him so long, although told me his teaching had gone downhill in the last year or two.
    He is a great guy who comes and plays for our bands etc, and very supportive, but in the last few rehearsals I've noticed he is often in the wrong place and students are nudging him to show where they are etc! I've asked a few of the better students learning with him a few questions about quality of lessons - what they're doing etc, which would have been a perfect opportunity for them to say if they thought anything was wrong, but they all love him :)
    What would you do - is it time he was replaced? Would you wait until he 'retired'. This is his last school, and I think he lives for this job - I hear him on the phone to his wife at the end of the day saying how much he's enjoyed his day, but I worry for the quality of teaching the students are getting. We have an increased demand for his instrument, and rather than adding extra hours to him, this would be a good opportunity to get a new teacher in on a different day to take on new students?
    Any opinions welcome :)
     
  3. Time to go I think. Yes it feels harsh but you have to put the students first. There is nothing to stop him taking on private students if he so wishes. Make room for someone younger - I hear that new teachers are finding it hard to get any work - it's not really fair to keep him on when, I presume, he does not need to be working. He's married, so it's not like he's going to be sitting at home on his own - let him and his wife have more time together.
    The irony is that it a middle aged or even a younger teacher were not doing their job completely properly how long would you let that go on for?.....
     
  4. Thanks for advice - as I expected! I'm a bit of a softy, but did send an email outlining my concerns to management today - thanks again
     
  5. If the instrument is becoming increasingly popular this perhaps is due to his teaching? If students were dropping out then I would agree it may be time for him to retire? He is clearly valued and is mentally thriving on keeping going. I have a friend in his 80s who works part time and says its what keeps him going. If you stopped his services he may well have a steep decline. Perhaps you could have a new person in for the extra hours? And the new y7s came to the new person? So there would be a 5 year pass over going on??
     
  6. The man sounds like he brings a wealth of experience and variety to the students he teaches. If you bring somebody else in, what's to say they would be any better?

    Quote

    It is true, better the devil you know etc. If he really is making a valuable contributions to the learning of the students then, like any teacher, regardless of age, you should keep his as long as you can. However (and reading between the lines of the original post) if it is the case that another teacher should be sought who could do the job better then that is the best course of action.

    It is effect on the students that count, the quality of what is being delivered. It comes down to a value judgemen that only the OP can make. However it needs to made withnout sentimentality .

    And I don't think that is age descrimination to suggest that someone who is way past retirement age should actually retire and make way for one of the growing number of young teachers who can't even get their first job.

    And, yes, all of this is entirely down to the OP if he so chooses. With great power comes great responsibility.
     
  7. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    Well, it is age discrimination. You are discriminating on the basis of age rather than competence.
    I agree completely with crowbob; I was appalled by the original post.

    Btw, to quote someone, highlight the bit in which you're interested and press the "quote button".
     
  8. Crowbob

    Crowbob Senior commenter

    It is more than just about "learning" (by which I assume you mean instrumental learning). The peri seems to be contributing to the EXPERIENCES of the students (there is some value in the band members helping somebody who is lost) and to the COMMUNITY of the school as a whole. He is well-liked by his students. I would take those issues into consideration.
    The OP hasn't commented on their experiences of the "teaching". Again, quality of delivery is only one aspect to be considered.
    Why? Why not just have computers making all decisions for us? There are human issues and policy issues that go far beyond whether somebody can teach flutter-tonguing well. The effect that a person can have on the life experience of students goes far beyond their technical competence.
    Yes, it is.
     
  9. What surprising responses! At 78, with failing health and declining quality of work, it would seem perfectly sensible not to give this chap new students. Age discrimination legislation (which doesn't usually apply in this context anyway) rightly prevents the dismissal of older staff who are perfectly able to fulfil their duties, but your first responsibility is to the students (for whom inferior tuition could prevent a career in music!). I haven't posted on here for ages, but the OP needs a little back-up! Courage, mon brave!
     
  10. I can't quote using my Android tablet for some reason so I will respond without quotes.

    If this is age discrimination then the retirement age is also age discrimination. Once someone has past the retirement age it seems perfectly reasonable for to retire,'or to be asked to retire.

    And, Crowbob, I have met various teachers who have given students a good experience, who students enjoy working with ect ect but who's actual teaching produced very poor outcomes. I was taught French by just such a teacher and Chemistry by another. Lovely old chaps, great to talk to, didn't know what time of day it was. One of them eventually set himself on fire with a bunsen burner and after that he was quietly asked not to come back in. The only reason he had been allowed to stay in the first place was that he had an MBE.

    Only the OP is in a position to assess the outcomes of this gentleman's teaching and it is this assessment which should be the deciding factor. This decision should be about learning outcomes, which may indeed include how much enthusiasm he engengers or whether he CAN teach all the required techniques. But it should not be based on how popular he is with students or how he makes than feel.

    I think it is right to offer support to the OP in this difficult decision and to be clear that deciding, if he does, to replace this teacher that he is not discriminating in terms of age but in terms of quality and that he should not loose sleep over such decision.

    I know that in my school, were it thought I was not up to delivering the goods, I would be given very few opportunities to redeem myself.
     
  11. Crowbob

    Crowbob Senior commenter

    So, do you withdraw your statements regarding: 1) the fact that he should give way to younger folk 2) that he does not "need" to work and that 3) he should be allowed to spend more time with his wife?
    Those were the points that I objected to.
     
  12. Not really - those were really aimed at helping the OP feel able to make the decision - the point being that there are many things that could ultimately seen to be positives about replacing this teacher even though he might, at first, be upset or dissapointed.
    I genuinely think that those of us who are older should consider making way for younger teachers, many of whom are desperately looking for their first job. Sorry if that grates. Perhaps I will see it differently when I'm 66.
    I will also say that it is a decision I would probably chicken out of.
     
  13. Well this is not an easy situation, hence why I'm here in the first place..... I can see both signs of the argument and the last thing I intend to do is push someone out who can do their job properly, but if they are not doing it properly, how do you manage this. I think passing on initial concerns to management is expected as part of my role, so I'm glad I've done this - and the fact they haven't yet got back to me also suggests they are unsure how best to move forward as well.
    The suggestion of appointing someone to take on Yr7's is worth noting - thank you :)

     

Share This Page