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Pe lessons

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by Kittyb74, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    It mentions that unqualified member of staff being supervised etc by a qualified member of staff. In all my years of teaching PE other staff could 'take' games' lessons but not teach gymnastics. It is quite possible that a primary school might have a trampette as part of its equipment and I would say it would take a rash person who would use that in a lesson if not qualified to teach PE. When our school close we had 2 trampolines to give away - a primary school might have got lucky.
    I am not sure where the teaching of swimming has ended up. When we took children swimming there was often a qualified swim teacher at the pool to instruct and the school staff would assist if capable. The fact that I had independent swimming teaching qualifications from the governing body of the sport didn't make any difference.
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  2. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    Hi @HelenREMfan

    ‘Supervised’ in this context doesn’t mean somebody actually there in the room. It means that the overall standard of work undertaken is supervised by the HT, in the same way that all other teacher’s work is.

    Also, re the trampolining point - Yes, the HT needs to believe the person supervising the use of this (or any) equipment is competent and able to ensure student safety, but again, this does not require QTS.

    I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have qualified PE teachers, just that there is no statutory requirement for anyone delivering PE lessons to hold QTS.

    Of course, most schools do have qualified PE teachers, as this is the only curriculum area where there is currently far more supply than demand (of teachers).
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  3. brighton56

    brighton56 Occasional commenter

    Lara mfl 05 and HelenREMfan like this.
  4. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    So now we know they are a year 4 class and the TA concerned is clearly a competent individual.
    So looking at the NC curriculum again (already posted earlier) what part involves the level of gymnastics that requires someone qualified?
    Outdoor adventure activities is generally covered with a residential trip to a centre with qualified staff.
    With respect, this was in secondary school. I wouldn't teach year 10 extension gymnastics and I doubt the OP would either. But then again I'd not want to coach the year 8 A Team rugby!
    Believe it or not, the vast majority of primary school teachers and TAs aren't completely devoid of a brain! And, to be honest, the vast majority of primary schools have little more than a couple of benches as gym equipment.
    Swimming is in a separate part of the NC. However it was irrelevant to this thread as the OP is being asked to teach year 4 PE on a Friday afternoon, so I didn't bother the add it in as an extra when copying and pasting.
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  5. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    Obviously any individual employer can put whatever policies in place they fancy. Remember the disastrous MAT that said all staff had to wear purple...?

    However, as demonstrated above, there are no national laws or regulations that prevent non QTS holders teaching PE.
  6. Kittyb74

    Kittyb74 New commenter

    I think the plan is hockey, hands up I have vague recollections of hockey when I was at school but haven't a clue about rules, etc but would be happy to look into it.
    The PE lesson I take for year 2 is lots of work on running, balance, hand eye coordination, catching and so on. We do have apparatus but in all honesty I've only ever seen it use a handful of times in all the years I've been there.
  7. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Think through what hockey will actually look like in year 4. We aren't talking about full on 11 a side matches.

    Year 4
    Lesson 1: Dribbling a ball back and forth with control. (Through cones, etc) Finish by a competition as to who can whack the ball the furthest to give your tricky ones a sense of achievement to finish the lesson and week.
    Lesson 2: Passing the ball to someone standing still. Stopping the ball with control. Finish with a competition as to which pair can flick the ball back and forth the most times.
    Lesson 3: Safety in hockey. If we want to play a match, what will we have to think about? Can you get the ball away from your partner by following the agreed safety rules and the rules of the game? Finish with the same competition as in lesson 1.
    Lesson 4: Shooting to a target (set up cones to make 'goals'). Pass to a partner and they shoot immediately. Finish with a penalty shoot out type competition.
    Lesson 5: An obstacle course/circuit type lesson practising all the skills so far. Work out a scoring system.
    Lesson 6: The troublesome pupils are the referees/linesmen/etc (no doubt they will be very keen on everyone else following the rules to the letter!). Could even have a couple filming to be the video referees. Then have a match with everyone else playing.

    Have a great time, but don't begrudge the teachers who have dumped it on you. You'll have a fab time, they'll have a heap of marking and you get to be the popular teacher! Win for all.
  8. Kittyb74

    Kittyb74 New commenter

    That's great, thank you. Hopefully they'll enjoy it and learn something new, me included.
  9. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    Think football, with sticks...
    Lara mfl 05 and Kittyb74 like this.
  10. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter


    Think you may have just ruined your own argument about non-specialist teaching of PE!

    But it will engage boys.
    agathamorse, Lara mfl 05 and Pomza like this.
  11. asnac

    asnac Established commenter

    If this is their first lesson, make sure they understand about keeping the stick low. And even if it's not their first lesson, go through the safety points.

    Boys in particular love to take golf swings if they can get away with it, and don't realise that the blade might be heading for someone else's face.
  12. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    I wouldn't have year 4 hitting a hockey ball at first but rather developing a strong sweeping push. It is then much easier to enforce the rule governing safety when using the stick. I made it a rule even in secondary that the stick wasn't to go above elbow height either in front or behind! (You then had some chance of it remaining below the shoulder height which was the official rule) Better to have push drill in 2s whereby on each successful and accurate push they can step back thereby increasing the distance achieved - aiming for accuracy and distance ie the ball to partner's stick head. I also wouldn't have 'flicking' the ball so early on in the course..... the kids would lack the skill to keep the flick controlled - direction etc. Push passing on the move, managing to pass the ball to partner between each gap in the cones - differentiation could see that gap narrowed (that's for the poster who didn't believe about differentiation being achieved in PE as we only 'play with the kids don't ya know) Passing an opponent ie have a static opposing partner standing in the middle of a "channel' the player with the ball has to dribble past ie dodging/changing direction to avoid a permitted one step attempt to touch the ball by the opponent. The 'game situation could be in a set zone and if a player manages to dribble the ball across the opposing touchline then they have 'scored".

    There are many variations but I would shy away from hitting the ball initially on a first course of lessons - rather aim for good dribbling skills and for passing an opponent.

    Re Primary teaching of PE, in my experience it can be woeful @caterpillartobutterfly. I have long been a voice in the wilderness pleading for PE specialists to be in primary schools. I felt a number of primaries clubbing together to appoint a PE specialist would work wonders for British sport (though alas modern training for PE specialists is not what it was with too many only having one or 2 specialisms and relatively little spread of skills and knowledge- unlike the old days of PE specialist colleges where 3 or more years were spent getting a thorough grounding in virtually all aspects of PE) The last thing we need is the 'watering down' of PE teaching by having unqualified people leading sessions/lessons.
  13. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    No idea what you mean. I'm a professional...
  14. brighton56

    brighton56 Occasional commenter

    If you are in a local authority school then I would check VERY carefully with your headteacher. All these posters are quick to dismiss the fact you need to be 'qualified' but nobody will be able to support you if something were to happen.

    Whilst I am on the subject of PE, children in primary school should not be studying individual sports, i.e. basketball or hockey. It is the skills you are developing within lessons. If you have been to any PE CPD in the last five years you will know this. The skills are interchangeable and you apply to different sports over your unit.

    Next you will be telling me that you are using wooden hockey sticks in Year 4 with children not having shin pads or gum shields.

    Other bugbears for another time, teachers playing tag rugby in primary schools without the RFU accreditation and parents/volunteers running sport clubs without the appropriate Level 2 or above qualification in that sport.
    agathamorse and install like this.
  15. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    That's your choice, of course. And might well be the best thing for teaching actual hockey on a school field with children of 11 years and over.
    For 8 year olds simply learning various skills, usually on a playground, with plastic sticks and (probably) tennis balls, other possibilities might be better.
    Not half as appalling as some primary school maths! It can be seriously awful! I was asked to go and coach a year 5 teacher once, who was struggling. It was the hour a week I dreaded most because he was so utterly clueless about maths itself. It was one of the very,. very few times in my career when I've actually thought seriously about suggesting a published scheme might be an improvement.

    We have specialists in my school, but they aren't necessarily the best people to teach the younger ones to be honest. A trained PE specialist, trained to teach 11-18 year olds can really, really struggle when trying to teach a large group of 5-6 year olds. Just managing the much shorter concentration spans and lower physical stamina makes it a very different job. I've even seen a PE specialist attempting to teach rugby style passing to reception and getting really cross with them for 'not listening properly' when they couldn't do it. I'm a non specialist, but I do know that that class weren't yet able to catch a large round ball thrown from two feet away right into their outstretched hands. Running passing and catching with rugby balls was never going to be a success!
  16. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    If asked to teach elements of PE with which you do not feel confident, the best thing to do would be to flag up the training need. It may be a training need which could be met fairly easily, such as spending twenty minutes with the PE coordinator, and perhaps observing them teaching a lesson. If it's something where you have safety concerns, make sure you have kept a record of asking for training, and avoid doing anything you haven't been specifically told to cover.
    agathamorse and install like this.
  17. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Don't need CPD to know this, it is the whole thrust of the NC!
    However teaching the skills within the context of a sport can aid interest and engagement.
    agathamorse and Pomza like this.
  18. Sally006

    Sally006 Senior commenter

    That is my understanding too.
  19. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    My colleague and I developed lessons of Games' Skills and Understanding donkeys' years (25 years ago) before they became the 'thing' I quite agree that it is very desirable to teach the concepts via a range of invasion games etc. One of those sessions might well encompass the use of hockey sticks. We had a supply of plastic sticks for the Year 7s who struggled (or indeed those judged to be too dangerous). The games' skill of accurate passing of a ball or pushing the ball into space could be practised safely. I still maintain that there is no need to have year 4s trying to hit the ball.
    One activity our Year 7s liked was when we put every ounce of equipment we possessed and encouraged them to invent their own game, be it an invasion, net or striking game. They had to devise their own rules and consider safety.
    agathamorse likes this.
  20. celago22

    celago22 Established commenter

    I admit that teaching PE is my least favourite thing to do and in a Friday afternoon with a tricky class, it won't be much fun. However, the teachers could have given you a practical science lesson, art/Dt or a subject which you'd have to mark the books for. If hockey then a really simple game: divide class into 4 teams, put 4 benches out but lay them on their side. Get children to number themselves in each team 1-8 let's say. Then say 1s play against one another. Each team has a hockey stick and you need 1 plastic ball for the class. The idea is that the players have to hit the other teams ' benches to score points and the others have to defend. Once hit, that team player is out and has to sit behind their bench. To make it more interesting, you can increase the number of players, number of balls. It's easy to manage and children love the competition. It's also quite a well-paced game because children aren't really sat down for too long, the more challenging children can be in charge of retrieving the ball, keeping the scores etc.

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