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Pe lessons

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by Kittyb74, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. Kittyb74

    Kittyb74 New commenter

    Just need some opinions, thoughts or whatever. I'm not yet qualified HLTA, on course but not finished yet. I cover over the week several different classes. One in particular is a really difficult class, loads of behaviour problems. The teachers (job share)struggle with the behaviour and these kids are often sent out with supporting adults to do other work. The result a calmer class. They have asked me to teach PE on a Friday afternoon. I do feel they are taking advantage of the fact that I cover and palm stuff they don't want to do on me. Honest opinions please.
  2. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    Well PE lessons tend to be timetabled because they need access to playground/ hall so if that's the class slot, that's what you're expected to do.

    If you're studying for HLTA you will need experience right across all curriculum subjects and classes with different behaviour, so may just be the school needing to expose you to such.

    Having said that, PE with a class with challenging behaviour is a H & S issue and you may need to spend a large part of several lessons ensuring children can respond immediately, just in case there is an accident. I wouldn't be using too much equipment until I'd got the class well in hand
    sunshineneeded and phlogiston like this.
  3. BertieBassett2

    BertieBassett2 Star commenter

    I was always under the impression that only qualified teachers can take PE lessons - apart from sports' coaches, that is. Isn't it something to do with insurance? I could be wrong.
    PE lessons with the best of classes can be a challenge, with the change in physical boundaries. I suggest contacting your union to get a more official take on this, but I wouldn't be happy leading PE lessons as HLTA.
  4. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    Yes I know there used to be a worry about only teachers or sports coaches HLTAs with a sport qualification, taking PE lessons because of insurance issues, which I'd forgotten about when I replied.
    agathamorse likes this.
  5. asnac

    asnac Established commenter

    That would be an excessive response to the situation, though it is not right (from a safety standpoint) to send a trainee HLTA out alone to teach PE to a class with known behavioural issues.

    Yours is a reasonable, normal concern. I'd talk to the teachers who have asked you to cover the lesson and explain that while you have been happy to take on anything and everything, and therefore do not want to appear unwilling now, the children's welfare comes first. With this particular cohort, you don't feel that you can guarantee their safety. And ask if the teachers have any solutions.

    They will recognise that if things do go wrong, you have told them, and the blame could bounce back on them.
    agathamorse and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  6. Kittyb74

    Kittyb74 New commenter

    Thanks, I teach PE for another year group so have that as experience. This challenging class I talk about I also cover 2 afternoons a week so I am use to their behaviour it's more to do with the teachers taking advantage. Their TA's are often commenting on the fact that the unruly ones are barely in class, normally sent out to work with a supporting adult.Without meaning to blow my own trumpet I never do when I am teaching. I believe it's important to keep them in class. My concern is that they don't want to do because they have to have them all and can't send them off to do other things.
  7. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    This is a myth which endures particularly well for some reason. There is no special insurance that applies only to PE lessons and a non qualified person can teach it without issue.

    Obviously, if a school let a completely incapable or incompetent person teach it, then this could be deemed negligent, but the same would be true of any other subject or even playground supervision.
  8. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    On a Friday afternoon, with a challenging primary class, PE would seem a great idea! Follow it with golden time for all those who have behaved impeccably and you're sorted.
    You don't need to have apparatus out or do anything particularly risky. I would be thrilled to be doing PE at such a time. The worst thing is when idiot timetablers give a challenging class PE and computer science in the morning on a Friday and so the poor teacher has to try and do maths or English in the afternoon.
    My honest opinion is that you need to stop gossiping with the other TAs, stop being so negative about the class teachers and just get on with doing the job you are being asked to do. Your posts on this thread have done nothing except make me feel sorry for the poor classteachers who have to contend with such nasty gossip from the TAs and HLTAs.
    starlightexpress likes this.
  9. Kittyb74

    Kittyb74 New commenter

    Honest opinion was asked for not your accusations of me gossiping or being negative. Your post has now made me feel very wary about asking for advice again if that's the response I expect to receive.
  10. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Yeah...that's the problem about asking for honest opinions, you won't always get answers you like. :(

    Don't feel wary about asking for advice...just be wary of how you phrase it?

    (And now I feel like I'm lecturing you or telling you off, which isn't what I meant to do at all. I apologise. I hate reading slightly stinging wrist-slapping responses when I post in ways I shouldn't. It is horrid and I'm sorry.)
  11. Kittyb74

    Kittyb74 New commenter

    My intention wasn't to sound like I was critizing anyone and I stay away from the gossiping, that's why I asked on here rather than voice my concerns at work.Sorry if my post came across in a negative way. I appreciate your comments and apologies.
  12. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    I disagree. Non-specialists might be called upon to teach games but they cannot teach gymnastics or trampolining for example.
    Lara mfl 05 and agathamorse like this.
  13. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    I would be very wary about allowing any TA/HLTA etc to teach PE.
    What age range of pupils are we speaking about ?

    If the class in question is primary then I agree there are probably class teachers who might rather walk over hot coals than to have to don their plimsolls and teach PE.

    Friday afternoon can be a great time slot to teach a practical and it has the in-built facility for remedying poor behaviour by allowing a delay at end of school time of up to 10 minutes for kids who decided they couldn't behave.

    Remember though that it is Physical Education and not just an opportunity to all have a play around.
    Lara mfl 05 and agathamorse like this.
  14. install

    install Star commenter

    It's a big NO from me .

    In the meantime ...

    You could ask for PE training first? Are you first aid trained? Have you observed PE teachers teach? What about health and safety and child safeguarding ? Will someone always be with you? Will the parents be informed? Will your pay shoot up to take account of the extra responsibility and accountability? What will you teach? Will you be planning- and include risk assessments? Will you get the blame if/when something goes wrong? Are you in a Union and have you asked them where you stand on this? Is it in your contract?
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
    Lara mfl 05 and agathamorse like this.
  15. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I don't know any primary school that teaches trampolining...our H&S person would have apoplexy if we asked for one of those toddler ones with a handle!!! :eek:

    The compulsory part of the NC for PE is:
    Pupils should be taught to:
    master basic movements including running, jumping, throwing and catching, as well as developing balance, agility and co-ordination, and begin to apply these in a range of activities
    participate in team games, developing simple tactics for attacking and defending
    perform dances using simple movement patterns.

    Pupils should be taught to:
    use running, jumping, throwing and catching in isolation and in combination
    play competitive games, modified where appropriate, and apply basic principles suitable for attacking and defending
    develop flexibility, strength, technique, control and balance
    perform dances using a range of movement patterns
    take part in outdoor and adventurous activity challenges both individually and within a team
    compare their performances with previous ones and demonstrate improvement to achieve their personal best.

    What part of that could a non-specialist not do?
    What part requires more first aid training than doing break duty?
    Why on earth could a competent TA, such as the OP, not do this with a class they know well?
    agathamorse and Pomza like this.
  16. Kittyb74

    Kittyb74 New commenter

    They are a very challenging Year 4, extremes of behaviour, ranging from physical contact to destruction of property and much more. There is fierce competition between certain class pupils and this often results in conflict. I learnt that all to well when I taught them on a previous occasions and that time I had additional support.
  17. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Sounds just like some of the staff meetings in our place...
    DazzleDust and Pomza like this.
  18. Kittyb74

    Kittyb74 New commenter

    That's funny.
  19. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    Ah so it is Primary. OK. As I have said though it is for a PE specialist to teach gymnastics ! In addition it needs qualified staff to teach and supervise outdoor, adventurous activities.
  20. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    Sorry, but that's incorrect. The HT can ask anybody to teach any part of the PE curriculum, as long as they deem them capable of doing so. The same applies to any other subject.

    The legislation that covers this can be found here - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/762/schedule/paragraph/6/made

    Or, if you have a log-in for The Key, an abridged explanation here - https://schoolleaders.thekeysupport.com/staff/staff-ratios-and-qualification-requirements/qualification-requirements/who-is-allowed-to-teach-physical-education-pe-lessons/?marker=live-search-q-unqualified teach pe-result-1

    The DfE spokesperson told us that an unqualified teacher in a maintained school can be asked to carry out ‘specified work’ in PE lessons. Under The Education (Specified Work) (England) Regulations 2012, this can mean:

    • Planning and preparing lessons and courses for pupils
    • Delivering lessons to pupils
    • Assessing the development, progress and attainment of pupils
    • Reporting on the development, progress and attainment of pupils

    The unqualified teacher may carry out this specified work independently, provided the headteacher is satisfied they are capable of doing so.

    People do really believe the 'UQT/TA can't teach PE' myth though - it's a really persistent one.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020

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