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Paying for Union - Value for Money?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by ashasolanki, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. ashasolanki

    ashasolanki New commenter

    I have been a member of the teaching union for many years and was wondering if it is value for money? have seen reduction in pension contribution and lack of pay increases over the few years and not much activity from the unions. I wanted to know how others in the education sector feel about this?
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  2. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The heads of the unions are no longer interested in pushing up or even preserving teacher pay at current levels given their cooperation with the TES campaign #LetThemTeach to have the government add teaching to the list of 'shortage occupations' for preferential visa awards:

    'Kevin Courtney, joint general secretary of the NEU teaching union, said: “Teacher recruitment and retention problems are growing and impacting on children’s education.

    "Many heads are now facing having to lose teachers from overseas who have to leave because their visa has run out. This makes no sense. The government needs to change the regulations.”

    And Mary Bousted, joint general secretary of the NEU, added: "The fact that schools cannot keep on valuable members of staff because they can't get visas when there's no replacement is just a nonsense."
    TES.com, 25th June 2018.

    If this happens then expect to see foreign teachers pour in to the UK and teacher remuneration plummet in response. In their support for this the unions are not acting in the best interests of their members so why should we pay their salaries out of ours while they campaign to push these down? Quite simply, we should not.

    Unions, get a clue.
  3. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    You, me, everybody (who is a teacher in a union) is the union, if you are unhappy then see if others about you feel likewise, go to meetings, make your self heard.

    The unions appear weak as it's members are so apathetic But it is a Catch 22 as the members are apathetic because the unions appear weak.

    It is only by making ourselves heard will things ever change.
    agathamorse, JohnJCazorla and bajan like this.
  4. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Perhaps overseas teachers are disproportionately represented among union members? Perhaps those who come from other countries with a stronger union tradition and belief in those principles are more likely to sign up? Maybe there's less apathy regarding employment rights and more solidarity among foreigners. Maybe British teachers are more willing to be doormates than foreign ones.
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  5. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Too late in this case. Damage done. They were not thinking of their members' interests.
    agathamorse likes this.
  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I doubt it.

    Unlikely. Trade unions originated in 18th Century Britain.

    Impossible to measure.

    Qualified & professional British teachers, no, I do not think so.
  7. install

    install Star commenter

    The reasons to be in a Union far outweigh not being in one and having no effective representation at all. Many posters rightly believe that everyone should be in a Union...

    In terms of value for money that depends on how much you use and support your Union. It would be good to see one Union though united and with one aim.

    For me that aim should be the abolishment of League Tables and Ofsted.:rolleyes:
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    In light of stagnant pay, here is a question all established teachers should ask of the teaching unions:

    install likes this.
  9. DrResource

    DrResource New commenter

    From past experience with a colleague being harassed and pushed out of their job the 'Union' was a waste of space! If you are in an Academy and not on TUPE a union can do nothing to help you! Academies can refuse to let Union reps into the building!

    For this reason I have left my Union and joined EDAPT. This protects me personally as they are a group of solicitors focussing on education.

    So, if you are interested in the politics aspect of being in a Union, then fine. But don't expect any help if you're in an Academy.

    As a union regional leader said to my friend " Well. You let your school come out of LEA control to become an Academy - what did you expect?"
    agathamorse, install and Vince_Ulam like this.
  10. install

    install Star commenter

    I agree in part to the question, and all Unions are only as good and as strong as their members and their parts.Janet Jackson's hit was more to do with her personal divorce and marital issues sadly.
    JohnJCazorla and Vince_Ulam like this.
  11. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    The unions are the sum of their members.

    At the first whiff of academisation they should have had their whole membership out on strike. But what happens when a teachers' strike is suggested? Far, far too many won't support it. Don't want to lose a days pay. Don't want to be seen as a troublemaker, militant or commie. Teachers have allowed the education system and teaching as a profession to be undermined and eventually brought to its knees because going on strike was too often a step too far. 'But what about the children?' Spineless, compliant, short sighted.
  12. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    An idealistic formulation these days. In reality the teaching unions act in accord with their leaders' preferences & prejudices.
    install likes this.
  13. install

    install Star commenter

    Anyone else in EDAPT? This Union looks interesting and fairly cheap by comparison. I wonder how good/bad they are?
    agathamorse likes this.
  14. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I think that apathy can be explained by the hope of many teachers that academies would be better places in which to teach and good for their children personally.
  15. install

    install Star commenter

    Yes and there are dodgy leaders in all walks of life. Again I agree in part . Issues happen when some members might feel like pawns being used for the better good of all. When what many members may want is better individual representation - rather than a Universal, group pack one. Even so, one united Union would be stronger.
  16. Marshall

    Marshall Star commenter

    I am a passionate believer in the power of unions and the choice of individuals to be part of one BUT I don't feel supported in any way by the NAHT and the fees they charge are starting to annoy me. I have used them 3 times in 15 years (in a non-crisis way) and everytime I knew the answer myself and did it better myself.

    This post is not about the NAHT but about the value for money. In my opinion - NO.
    Stormy861, install and Vince_Ulam like this.
  17. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    EDAPT is not a union. If anything it's a version of insurance, "Just in case I get an accusation made"

    So no representative will ever go to the head and try and discuss what teachers need pointing out. No need for EDAPT to push for pension, pay and conditions. No need for any rep in any school.

    Given that a high number of teachers aren't prepared to back a union anyway then this could well be the future. What a depressing world.
  18. peapicker

    peapicker Star commenter

    I'll respond to your points out of order, if I may.

    Second point first: yes, I would always belong to EDAPT instead of a traditional teaching union too. I have witnessed EDAPT's support for members at first hand and I have found it to be exemplary.

    First point second! :) It is not the case that a union is unable to support if you are in an academy. Academies may refuse to engage in collective bargaining and there is no right to be accompanied to most meetings. However, the right to be accompanied to a disciplinary or grievance meeting/hearing or appeal by a trade union representative is a statutory one and no Academy can refuse this without being in breach of the ACAS Code of Practice for fair Disciplinary and Grievance proceedings.

    It is also unlawful to refuse to employ someone or otherwise cause them to suffer detriment because they are members of a trade union. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2010/9780111490457/regulation/5

    It is further unlawful to offer someone an inducement not to belong to a trade union or to take part in its activities.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  19. peapicker

    peapicker Star commenter

    But bloody good in an appeal against dismissal when they send a barrister to rip holes in the school's flimsy case.
    agathamorse and Vince_Ulam like this.
  20. Sir_Henry

    Sir_Henry Occasional commenter

    Save your money and spend it on drink.

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