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Pay cut due to Corona virus - even though schools have reopened?

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by mr1303, May 4, 2020.

  1. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    Yup, agreed. Using ministry guidelines, schools can refuse to hand over final reports to parents with outstanding debts. Rules of the country states, an expat cannot leave the country if he/she have unsettled debts. Internationally tagged if need be. Most schools learnt from China and has actived these laws.
     
  2. mr1303

    mr1303 New commenter

    Thanks for all of the helpful advice. FYI I had a big long meeting with the principal yesterday, and I have somewhat reluctantly agreed to stay for 1 more year.
     
  3. Powergnome3

    Powergnome3 Occasional commenter

    While the information about withholding reports is correct, I don’t think a school can withhold the predicted grades - that is both immoral (the students’ futures are at stake), and not acceptable in terms of these are public exams - schools have no right to stop an entry for a qualification.
    This is a global catastrophe for everyone, not just schools, and if teachers think that they should somehow be shielded from the knock on financial issues the world is seeing, then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. The vast majority of us teach in private international schools - we rely on the parents paying up, because around 70-80% of all the income goes on teacher packages... therefore, if parents who are struggling out there in the business world are unable to pay fees, then it is only natural that teachers may need to shoulder some pain too.
    This is not a short term issue - I can see 12-24 months of lower pay for many people, including teachers.
     
    T0nyGT likes this.
  4. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    Schools can. As for moral values. It's also wrong for anyone not to fulfill your financial commitments considering your son's or daughter's teachers and school continue to work their bums off to make those predicted grades become real.

    Pretty simple for parents.. Know what the consequences are for not honoring your end of the private school bargain.

    If the parents are struggling then be upfront with the school and develop a payment plan. Schools are always willing to solve the problem.

    But to those parents who simply refuses to pay because online learning "doesn't count". Schools should be more than entitled to action whatever means they need to recoup the money they are owed.

    As for taking a paycut. Totally up to the OP. If they have a big fat savings vault and they could afford to gamble then sure why not leave.
     
  5. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    [QUOTE="Powergnome3, post: 13116979, member: 7584854"This is a global catastrophe for everyone, not just schools, and if teachers think that they should somehow be shielded from the knock on financial issues the world is seeing, then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. The vast majority of us teach in private international schools - we rely on the parents paying up, because around 70-80% of all the income goes on teacher packages... therefore, if parents who are struggling out there in the business world are unable to pay fees, then it is only natural that teachers may need to shoulder some pain too.
    This is not a short term issue - I can see 12-24 months of lower pay for many people, including teachers.[/QUOTE]

    But like parents, we have financial commitments too that mean we can't just accept a sudden 25% or 30% reduction in salary. And if that cut is not to protect the fabric of the school but instead to protect the profits of the owner, is that fair? I don't think any reasonable person would expect a large pay increase next year, or indeed any non-contractual bonuses, and I agree that over the next couple of years pay might not jump as much as it has recently, but an owner who is protecting his own pocket while cutting pay and (often) not cutting fees to parents frankly deserves all that comes to him.
     
    TusitalaH likes this.
  6. Mitochondria1

    Mitochondria1 Occasional commenter

    Seriously? Why should teachers accept a pay cut? Go shopping, there will be good schools out there that are not struggling or going to reduce packages. I managed to net myself an extra couple of grand a month thanks to a new job...

    As I said before, the packages will be cut, but they won't go back up again if people accept them; we will be looking at the new norm.
     
  7. Luvsskiing

    Luvsskiing Established commenter

    It's not that some parents don't want to pay, it's that they have lost their jobs and can't pay, or had their salary cut, or suddenly can't find childcare, or have to look after others who are sick. This will have a knock on for schools.
     
    T0nyGT and grdwdgrrrl like this.
  8. Mitochondria1

    Mitochondria1 Occasional commenter

    As it did in 2008. Some schools slashed packages, others went under, some had enough reserves to continue business as usual, and the following year the owner bought a slightly smaller Bentley than he would have otherwise. Should be the same case now.
     
  9. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    This. This is why we can't just 'accept' pay cuts. And what if we don't? In reality, what are the alternatives for schools? Do they actually think there is a huge queue of people just waiting to get on imaginary planes, happy to do quarantine in some flea-ridden hotel in China so they can work for less than they'd get in the UK?
     
    abikuwait, TusitalaH and grdwdgrrrl like this.
  10. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    This is an interesting comment and i've seen it said on a number of threads. It leads me to ask, "who are you people teaching"?

    In over a decade of international teaching i cant honestly think of many if any parents that had low level jobs. The vast majorities have been government positions, CEO, chief financial officer, ambassabors, in oil or mining, owners of companies etc. They havent been the low level staff that this is going to massively impact.
     
  11. twisty08

    twisty08 New commenter

    Certainly worrying times for everyone. There may have to be some severe cutting of cloth to keep schools viable in the short to medium term.

    If you are asked to take a pay cut, what are the alternatives? Are you going to be able to get into another country to start a new job?

    It's especially worrying in countries that have been hit by a double whammy of the virus and plunging oil prices, for example Russia

    I have friends in Angola where 90% of the economy is oil exports. There are very real concerns of state defaults and complete economic collapse. I have strongly advised them to leave. You don't want to be somewhere like that when large numbers of people start to get desperate.
     
  12. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Strange, because when i asked the very tiny amount of people that would have been around when you were there, no one remembered you.
     
  13. grdwdgrrrl

    grdwdgrrrl Occasional commenter

    Really? How about airline execs? Or local entrepreneurs? Or hoteliers?
     
    BlueHues likes this.
  14. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    The local entrepreneurs i can understand, but i have not (in my knowledge at least) come across the others.

    With the local entrepreneurs im sure "steve in the warehouse" or "mike from sales" will be gone well before the owner of a company.

    Maybe its the places i have worked. The one Hotelier i know of, that was only a tiny bit of his massive international business empire.
     
  15. Mitochondria1

    Mitochondria1 Occasional commenter

    Reminds me of the teaching union 'strikes' in the 2000's when the government decided to give below inflation pay rises. One union did a one day protest, the rest just took it on the chin, resulting in a decade of in-real-term pay cuts.
    Plenty of lambs to the slaughter, prepared to be bent over and shafted...

    I wonder what the OP's Principal said to convince him to stay for another year, doing the same work, for 'substantially' less money...
     
  16. Duraz

    Duraz New commenter

    Nope. Dumbells only teaches the children of CEOs of multinationals. Many of whom choose to move their families to Angola because, as we know, the lifestyle on offer there far surpasses anything Europe has to offer!
     
    grandslam2005 likes this.
  17. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    have you been @Duraz ? because I think it's great. there is nothing I can't get there or do there that I couldn't in Spain. Obviously you would know this due to your extensive travels thereo_O
     
  18. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Sorry @Duraz i must correct myself.....i cant get a MacDonalds or watch bullfighting.... my world is an empty place:(
     
  19. Radian43

    Radian43 New commenter

    Zero chance I would be accepting a pay cut of any meaningful value. My school have not yet mentioned cuts, although they did suggest that we work an extra 6 weeks after the end of the school term for no additional pay. I refused.

    I second the previous posts about the 'new normal' and would point out that in the previous 2-5 years of economic boom we have seen packages generally decreasing, not increasing; which flies in the face of potential future salary promises.

    Lastly, this may sound harsh, but if a person puts themselves in a financial situation whereby they desperately need an income and aren't able to walk away from a contract that has key terms altered then they need to learn from this experience. There are some exceptions, but it is generally not 'luck' that some people find themselves in a position to be able to walk away from a job due to a pay cut - its sound financial planning.

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant staff costs (inclusive of TA, Security, Admin etc) and not simply teacher salaries, but there is no chance that salaries at an International school comprise 80% of the revenue a school gets. It is a significant % sure and it is likely the biggest single cost to any school, but 80% leaves no room for equipment/running costs, exam entries and profit - never mind any large scale infrastructure spend.
     
    Luvsskiing likes this.
  20. 4019775

    4019775 New commenter

    "Internationally tagged if need be"

    Total BS.

    Governments or border agencies do not keep records of debts (apart from some backward ME countries keeping records for their own country). Credit reporting companies keep records of debts and as data collection laws differ from country to country these records are unique to individual countries.

    Spend 250 quid and higher an online appointment with a lawyer specializing in debt and they will tell you the same.

    "internationally tagged" indeed. The idea that on entering Oz, UK, US or Canada and a debt you have in some ME sh*t hole comes up as they scan your passport is total nonsense.
     
    Luvsskiing likes this.

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