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Parent with a question about secondary levels

Discussion in 'Secondary' started by gruoch, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. gruoch

    gruoch Established commenter

    The problem here is that a level 4 at KS2 in no way eqauted to a level 4 at KS3. A pupil gaining a level 4 in English in KS2 SATs couldn't begin to access a KS3 paper, let alone get a level 4.

  2. arsinh

    arsinh New commenter

    Everyone complaining about NC levels will no doubt cheer when Michael Gove announces their abolition effective from September 2013 (you heard it here first).
  3. Interesting info arsinh, however I'm not sure I'll bother cheering. Kids need to be assessed surely (God forbid they goday without being 'levelled' and given 'curricular targets') and whatever he brings in to replace it will, I'm sure, be no great cause for celebration.
  4. Oops - 'go a day'! What NC level does that 'goday' give me I wonder?!
  5. arsinh

    arsinh New commenter

    Every student is going to be compared to the average child of that age so they can be working at the average level, below it or above it (or significantly below or above). This is easily understandable for parents - one of the stated requirements of the new NC. Yes, I'm sure there will be pressure to ensure all children in the country are above average.
  6. I fear so... I'm no statistician but I thought 'average' was broadly meant to mean where most people/things should fall in a sample, so I'm always a bit aggrieved when we are expected to get the majority of our pupils to above average levels.
    Is the government going to try to build another Empire? Is this why we need a population of geniuses who are ALL above average? Where does the average come from anyway? Why are children made to feel like failures if they don't get the magic C in every single subject? Does a grade C really equate to the holy grail? Why?
  7. gruoch

    gruoch Established commenter

    See, I'm rubbish at maths, but even I know the difference between average and median. Anyway, we are all expected to get our pupils to be above average, aren't we?
    I have no idea how this is supposed to work, but I expect Gove minor* can explain it to us. He went to a proper school, after all.
    *Other equally innumerate Ministers for Education are freely available.
  8. henriette

    henriette New commenter

    At the risk of dissing the stats: IMHO, each child will achieve what they are capable of.
    My son furnished KS2 with a 4b - now in y9 he is predicted an A for English - tell me that is 3 levels of progress over 5 years if you dare!!
    The difference is that he had a boring English teacher in Yrs 5&6 and an inspirational one in yrs7 & 8.
    You cannot apply arithmetic progression to children.
  9. gruoch

    gruoch Established commenter

    Try telling that to FFT
  10. See, gruoch, this is what I don't understand. OK, I'm not up on my mathetical terms. My point was <u>exactly</u> that I <u>don't</u> understand why we are expected to get ALL out pupils above <u>the</u> average.
    Apparently the average attainment is a level 5 in year 9, countrywide. If one works in a school where a very large number of children come in with English as an additional language and/or behavioural issues which mean they spent primary school sitting under the stairs and/or real physical/social/emotional abuse at home then I would venture that to be threatened with closure of the school / forced academy status / performance management for not getting these children to be 'average' is unfair.
    The CVA measure might not have been perfect but at least it allowed us to show the value we added to our pupils in real terms and not measure them against some 'average' standard that they have been given. We have a situation in this country now where if a child doesn't achieve a grade C in year 11 they are seen by themselves and everyone else as a failure. It's not realistic. When you sleep on your Grandma's floor with the alsation because your mum's high on crack and your older sister has the spare bed because she's about to give birth, being told that you've failed because you got a D seems a bit harsh to me.
    I don't pretend to have any answers yet, I'm not experienced enough, but it upsets and infuriates me that we have to work our a**es off, practically doing coursework for kids, so that we can get the golden egg of a C because that's the only thing that's of any worth. Actually showing kids the value of doing the work themselves, to their own best standard, and getting the grade they deserve would be a far better life lesson in my eyes. And of course I get that they will have better life chances if they get good grades but what happens when WE get the grades for them because of all the pressure we're under and then they get the college course they want and hey presto, they can't do it!!??
    Anyone with any answers is most welcome. I'm becoming very disillusioned already - caught between wanting to do the actual best by the children we work with and having to do what the system tells us is best.
  11. PaulDG

    PaulDG Occasional commenter

    No, but apparently it's quite OK to blame "lack of outstanding progress" on "boring teachers".

  12. gruoch

    gruoch Established commenter

    Well, my Yr 11s are having boring lessons. They complained. I told them it's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be hard work. It's meant to get you a good grade.

  13. I don't think I could have kept my mouth shut either :)

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