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Paid through the summer holidays?

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by Muldersfox, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. Muldersfox

    Muldersfox New commenter

    I'm currently working supply in a school and am taking on responsibilities which are equal to that of someone who does the post full-time, i.e. tutor, working at weekends (which I am not paid for, being on a day rate), doing subject catch-up at the end of school days. attending staff meetings and twilight INSETs etc..

    Now, I was originally put on a 5 week contract, but it was extended through until May half-term which is over the 12 week AWR rule on equal working conditions. It is very likely, almost certain in fact, that I'll be working through until July. I was told by the agency that I "should" be paid directly by the school if it goes over the 12 weeks (the use of the word "should" does leave me somewhat suspicious however).

    What I am wondering is this. How do I go about ensuring that I am paid through the summer holiday if I am asked to work until July?

    I'm not trying to be presumptuous here because technically there is still a possibility that I might not be needed after May, but I have put a lot of work into this job already and I want to be able to have an idea of what financial situation I will leave my family in come the summer. I will be working beyond the 12 week AWR period - the 12 weeks is the second week of the summer term (I have included the 2 week break in the 12 weeks).

    This is still a while away, but I'm wondering how I can broach this issue nearer the time. I don't, for example, want to threaten to not come back after May half-term because that won't go down well at all. At the same time I don't want to be taken advantage of and want to ensure that I am treated fairly.

    It should be noted that the school is an academy rather than a school which has to abide to the Burgundy Book.

    I appreciate any advice on this issue.
     
  2. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    I might be wrong here, but I don't see where you have the idea that you will be paid for the summer holidays? It is like those people on fixed term contracts isn't it? They end at the end of term? You can ask, but I doubt you will get anywhere.
     
    schoolsout4summer and wanet like this.
  3. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    .

    I'm afraid that I agree with @DYNAMO67 . :(

    There are people who do almost a year's maternity cover, the new mother retuns on the last day of term, they lose all summer pay. :( :(

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

    This made me smile, as it suggested to me (perhaps wrongly) that you had the hopeful view that an Academy, not being bound by STPCD and BB, would choose therefore to be more generous with its pay than a maintained school. :)

    I don't hold out much hope, to be honest.

    Best wishes

    .
     
    schoolsout4summer and wanet like this.
  4. ellephantf

    ellephantf New commenter

    This happened to me... Two term contract from January- July and... The teacher came back last week of term so I didn't get paid. I don't blame her, it was her right... Some heads DO pay in fairness... My old head would always pay a maternity cover teacher over hols... But they are not obliged to, sorry!
     
  5. applecrumblebumble

    applecrumblebumble Lead commenter

    Firstly do not include the 2 weeks for the holidays (I signed on for JSA here), they (agency) only count weeks worked. Secondly do not expect to get any holiday pay. When you get to within 1 week of AWR just remind your agency that you are aware that you ate nearing the 12 weeks continuous service. Be prepared for them to send you to another school so they do bot have to pay you full rate.
    Sorry to be so negative but that's what agencies are like. I hope you are getting a good rate for all the work you do.
    If you are looking for full time work you would be better applying for posts advertised yourself.
     
    schoolsout4summer and wanet like this.
  6. sunshineonarainyday

    sunshineonarainyday Occasional commenter

    I felt very guilty when I was on maternity leave, as I went back for the final few days of the academic year. However, I was always very upfront about this. Although I knew I didn't have to, I gave both the Head and the teacher doing my maternity cover my planned return to work date before I finished for maternity leave, and I stuck to it. The school made it clear to the supply teacher that they wouldn't be paid for the summer at the point of making the job offer. I was away for almost a full academic year, and I still feel bad about it now.
     
    wanet likes this.
  7. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    .

    They are probably not able to, financially, nowadays . . . paying two people for the same job for the same period is very difficult when schools are considering redundancies.

    Absolutely no reason to. That was - and still is - the system, and you had to give priority to your own family.

    So you can stop feeling guilty or bad. You did what the system required of you, for the sake of your family.

    Mind you, all to your credit that you should feel this way.

    Best wishes

    .
     
    wanet, ScotSEN and DYNAMO67 like this.
  8. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    If the OP were to look for a fixed term contract from the school - with a start date before the summer holidays and a finishing date afterwards, then they should get paid. Otherwise, I somewhat doubt it!
     
  9. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Do you not accrue holiday pay as a supply teacher in England?
    :eek:
     
  10. JaquesJaquesLiverot

    JaquesJaquesLiverot Established commenter

    Are you actually being paid as supply, or are you on a temporary contract?

    I thought that supply paid a higher daily rate because you didn't get paid for the holidays? That used to be the case - i.e. if you worked every day as a supply teacher you earnt about the same over the year as someone employed full-time.
     
    ilovepoppies likes this.
  11. jamtart20

    jamtart20 New commenter

    Hi TheoGriff,

    I only mentioned it was an academy purely because there is no set pay. I was just trying to clarify to be honest.

    With regards to academies, I don't see any advantage to staff in pay and conditions. That surely is the point of a lot of heads wanting conversion.
     
  12. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    .

    Indeed

    .
     
  13. jamtart20

    jamtart20 New commenter

    I'm on supply but I am being treated like a proper member of staff at the school in almost circumstances, I feel really integrated.

    Supply pays as low as they can get away with.
     
  14. jamtart20

    jamtart20 New commenter

    You do, but it's taken from the daily rate and you have to request when to use it. When you then calculate the amount it is, it's a much better deal being employed directly.
     
  15. applecrumblebumble

    applecrumblebumble Lead commenter

    Yes, if the agency take it out of your pay while you are working so it's your own money. They then give it back to you during the holiday.
    I just signed on JSA and said that it is not a fixed contract so no guarantee of work after the holiday and I am actively looking for work. You might get away with this a few times but once they (job centre) spot a pattern they get difficult paying the money. Sorry did not see jamtarts post.
     
  16. jamtart20

    jamtart20 New commenter

    Deleted.
     
  17. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    Agency and casual workers
    You might be told that you’ll get extra pay on top of your hourly rate, instead of being given paid holiday leave. This is known as ‘rolled-up’ holiday pay.

    The idea is that you store up the extra pay and use it when you want to take time off work.

    Although the government and Acas recommend employers don't use rolled-up holiday pay, it's legal if your employer does it clearly. For example, they can’t say "You’ll be paid £8 an hour which includes rolled-up holiday pay." They must say "Your basic hourly pay is £7.20 per hour. In addition to this you’ll receive 80p per hour rolled-up holiday pay."

    Your payslips must show the amounts separately. If they don’t, you should raise this issue with your employer. If you visit your local Citizens Advice, make sure you bring a recent payslip with you.
     
    sabrinakat likes this.
  18. jago123

    jago123 Established commenter

    Supply teachers are usually employed by an agency rather than school and therefore will only be paid for the hours that they work therefore you will not be paid for the 6 week holidays along with any other school holiday (Easter, Whitsun).
    Is the teacher you are covering for returning to work or have they left and the school are using supply teachers until a permanent teacher is recruited? If so, speak to the HoD or a member of SLT in regards to a permanent role at the school.
    If this is not viable, start looking for a new job now. This is the time of year where the majority of schools and academies are on recruitment drives to fill their vacancies for September.
    If you don't want to be allocated a timetable and set classes, perhaps a cover supervisor role would be a good choice for you!
     
  19. dominant_tonic

    dominant_tonic Established commenter

    You can't ensure it at all.

    There seems to be some confusion on this thread.

    You are employed by an agency, and after 12 weeks (excluding holidays where the clock is paused), if employed still by the agency you will be entitled to your daily rate paid to scale (now less enforceable because of pay portability of course, but a minimum of £111 (last time I checked, work that out to be sure) per day based on M1 salary). You are not entitled to holiday pay. Presumably your agency takes out so much per day for holiday pay which you can claim when you like (usually better in months where there is a holiday for tax purposes).

    You state that your agency says the school will take you on after 12 weeks. This is an odd arrangement, but not impossible if the school and agency have agreed. in this case, you cannot ensure anything, it depends on the contract the school decide to offer you. If they offer you a contract ending on the last day of term you will have no holiday pay. If (unlikely) they offer you a contract ending on August 31st you will.

    That's it. Agency = no holiday pay apart from what you accrue on a daily basis and access by request.

    School = dependent, as ever on what contract they offer you.

    I'm not trying to be presumptuous here because technically there is still a possibility that I might not be needed after May, but I have put a lot of work into this job already and I want to be able to have an idea of what financial situation I will leave my family in come the summer. I will be working beyond the 12 week AWR period - the 12 weeks is the second week of the summer term (I have included the 2 week break in the 12 weeks).

    I feel your pain :) I too am in a supply role and organising summer concerts, Christmas concerts, Schemes of Work etc, and have no idea what will happen in the future, but that's supply. Do the job well, hope something more secure comes out of it, if it doesn't pride yourself on a good reputation and excellent references.

    Then start drawing down your accrued holiday pay and put it up. I am taking 1/2 mine out now, because of the way my agency payroll works, I will be a week lighter in my pay this month, and a week next month. Therefore am taking out half now and half next month, and I still won't need to pay tax.

    My likely bet is that you will have to do the same, and put money aside. Is this your first year on supply?

    I save enough money from January on to ensure car payments and bills are met for August, September, October and November, and the money is sacrosanct. I sign on in the summer holidays and use that money for socialising, fuel and miscellaneous etc, knowing my bills are covered if my first decent pay is not until the end of November.

    I hope it all works out for you. Supply can be a tough gig.
     
  20. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    I'm really sorry - but this is not correct in respect of holidays.

    Agency workers accrue entitlement to statutory holiday pay at the rate of 1/12th of the annual entitlement for each completed month of service. Note that is statutory entitlement to 5.6 weeks for a full-time worker and has nothing to do with the usual teachers' contractual holidays.

    ACAS has produced a useful guide to this:

    http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/7/o/Holidays-and-holiday-pay.pdf

    As I stated above, if an agency is paying holiday pay alongside the normal payment, the pay-slip must state this clearly.
     

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