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P - scales or NC Levels

Discussion in 'Special educational needs' started by yellow army, May 19, 2004.

  1. I've heard lots of conflicting rumors about whether children with SEN at KS1 should be given NC levels or P-scale levels.
    If only children in Year R can be put down as a 'w' what NC level can you give to a child still at 'w' at the end of KS1?
    Can any one make this matter any clearer, please!
  2. I've heard lots of conflicting rumors about whether children with SEN at KS1 should be given NC levels or P-scale levels.
    If only children in Year R can be put down as a 'w' what NC level can you give to a child still at 'w' at the end of KS1?
    Can any one make this matter any clearer, please!
  3. avi


    P scales are useful to show progress within level W ......otherwise it may seem as if the child has not moved forward at all during the keystage. I recommend that you have a look at them & see where they can be useful for your children, their parents and other staff (if relevant). It is not correct, by the way, that only children at the end of YR can be 'put down as W'..... any child could be, but that is why P scales were devised. (They also give ideas for IEP targets.)
  4. P levels lead into Level 1, they are not only used in YR, I have a couple of children in Y2 who are working within P levels.
  5. Riv

    Riv New commenter

    Well put Avi
    The P scales and the NC scales give you a level of attainment for a pupil whatever their age. I teach some pupils working within P1 - 3 at KS4! In the same class I have pupils working within NC level 3 (and one at level 5 in science but only P8 in English)
    The P scales go from P1 through to P8, (ie 8 levels for what was once only W) after P8 comes NC level 1C.... The pupil, whatever their age should be "given" whichever level they have attained be it P or NC. Once P levels are fully understood there should not be a need to assess a pupil as W. P-levels show progression more easily for even the most limited child.
  6. kaitaz

    kaitaz New commenter

    If you need a set of p scales to look at let me know and I will post you some.
  7. Thanks for the replies. I do have copies of the P - scales and htree chidlren in my class (in Year 2) on them. (But of course accoding to QCA and their end of KS1 recording they are at 'w'!)
    I guess I just wanted to hear that I was doing the right thing after hearing so many people say so many different things.
    You words have made me feel like I AM doing the right thing! Thank you!
  8. rosyjan

    rosyjan New commenter

    I am also interested in the P scales. As a TA I often work with pupils who are often assessed as "W" on their end of unit markings or at the end of KS1 and even into years 3 and 4. I have appraoched my teacher and was told P scales aren't used in our school. Are there any plans for statutory use of P scales (there might already be) for those pupils at W at the end of KS1 and beyond? I have read the report by Richard Byers May 2003 but wondered if there was any further reports. What are you doing for those pupils not entered into KS1 sats, and how is this reported if at all to parents other than a W.
  9. All schools have to report below L1 as a W on the official reporting back on SATs.
  10. All statemented pupils have an annual review and the parents at our school are given the P scale their child has reached. They are also extremely useful for IEPs. The only problem in my view is that they are too subjective and there has been no levelling within our school. As one teacher said to me , 'It depends if you work from the top down or the bottom up as to what level you reach!!' I understand what she meant, does anyone else???
  11. In our school we have been using P-scales to assess any child below level 1 and have been told this is wrong and that QCA (or someone like that) are worried about their miss use. P-sclaes were only devised as a way to assess children who are on the SEN register. Needless to say we still use them to assess any child below level 1 as they are a useful tool to show such children are making progress. Has anyone else been told this?
  12. I agree that the level descriptors do allow teachers to be subjective- but don't the National Curriculum descriptors allow this too? We have been moderating the P Scales for 4 years now in English, Maths and Science. We have been working on the 'best fit' model, so pupils do not have to achieve ALL of the descriptor- as with NC levels. The moderation exercise has improved our assessment and ensured consistency through out the school. The moderation has been across schools as well as within our school. As our LEA is requesting P level prediction for target setting and at Annual Review, consistency in assessment is even more important.
    My concern regarding the P Scales is that they were written bottom up i.e. P1(i) to P8, where as the National Curriculum levels were written top down i.e. to Level 1. Consequently there is often a discrepency between Level 1 and P8. For example Science- it is harder to achieve a P8 than a Level 1.
  13. Please can you post me some. I would be very grateful
  14. sannas

    sannas Occasional commenter

    I agree with Desres, I teach kids on who are leveled at P6/7 but are achieving some level 1 targets, there does seem to be a gap between P scales and NC levels.
  15. Riv

    Riv New commenter

    Hi, P Level descriptors for English are on line at
    other p levels are on line too, go to
    and click on the subject you want to go to the online booklet for that subject, the level descriptors are in the back of this book, accessed by clicking on "performance descriptors" in the index on the first page.
  16. I use the P scales in year1 and the majority of my class are on the P scale. However as some one further up the thread noted there is a gap between the P scales and NC1. A child who has surpassed the requirements of P8 is not necessarily a 1C, but I am not allowed to say that the child is working towards level 1C.....I feel that if I assess these kids as 1C I am setting them up for a fall and conversely I don't want to assess them lower than what I know they are achieving.....HELP

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