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Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by Jeremyinspain, Feb 19, 2020.
The figures in the article are misrepresented simply because for a teacher living in the UAE, the author has included the housing allowance in their 'take home' pay. Most of the housing allowance will be paid out by the teacher to cover the rent, so whilst it may be believed that a teacher is taking home £60k per annum, they are actually losing a large amount of that money to pay rent! Furthermore, the average monthly rental of a 2 bedroom apartment in Dubai is considerably more expensive than in the UK (possibly on par with London)
Its sad that people have to work 40 years to only enjoy it on average of 14 years of retirement. At a top end international school (because the one in the article isnt) you can earn that retuiement pot in under ten years, plus live a fantastic life. How many teaching in the UK could say the same.
Must be a shock to the system though for people barely surviving in Spain to know even a bottom end school in the UAE pays a hell of a lot more than what they give up for the "lifestyle myth".
Some of us enjoy the Spanish lifestyle and earn a decent salary.
It is possible to get a decent pension pot together in well under the ten years mentioned above.
Granted, if you're only looking on Search or in IB schools it will take a little longer due to the low salaries offered. But Dumbbells is right, an international school will get you there much faster than a school in the UK.
Dummers - do you know anything about Dubai College to make that statement? I severely doubt it... have a look at their website old chap... this IS clearly an amazing school. The salary quoted is 16k dhs per month, which is around average for the ‘better’ Dubai school... but is lower by far than the average DC wage!
Have a colleague here now that worked there. I was going off what he said.... with a lot less swearing
When i think of top end international schools though i can not think of one from the UAE that would come remotely close to being classed as one.
This article should really swap some of the words to 'expenses (rent)' rather than repeatedly saying 'take home'.
If it's taking a person 40 years to save for retirement (£500k).... It's time for you to get to know Microsoft Excel. It's an oldie but a robust goodie....
People, singles or couples head to the ME to fast track their financial growth. 40 years in the UAE or any part of ME....??? With tax, rent and bills free packages... Goodness.
Dumbbells, you seem to be an authority on "top end" international schools...but have you ever worked in one?
They haven't taken into consideration the fact that teachers' homes in the UK have risen considerably by the time they retire. Some homes will be worth hundreds of thousands depending on their location in the UK, yet the teachers bought them for under 100k. Also as @Jason_Bourne_ says, you can't really include the housing allowance as take home as it does not go into your pocket.
I can't see this as being a particularly realistic article either. The main thrust of the argument is correct; if you want to live outside the UK, you will need to look after your own investments for retirement. However, I also ask; who are the people working in international schools for 40 years? Egad.
Also, to have a safe withdrawal rate from your investments of 26993 GBP each year in retirement (same as TPS), you would need 674,825 GBP invested, as the widely accepted and validated long term withdrawal rate that your principal can withstand without being depleted is 4%, not 5.7%. On top of that, by the time you retire, 26993 is going to have been eaten by inflation, so you are going to need even more to have the same lifestyle.
However, it is leaving out costs that really sinks the argument.
Neither the UAE or British example put housing into the costs, and It very much matters where you live in the UK, if you want to compare to living overseas. Having earned my teaching salary (around 43000 GBP) in inner London before leaving to go overseas (or is at abroad? ;-) ), my take home after pension, national insurance, tax and about 180 quid of student loan was about 2300 GBP per month. This was then further eviscerated by 1300 GBP in rent and bills, leaving me usually with 1000 GBP per month for all savings, food, fun, and other big expenditures. I think that equates to 12000 GBP per year, if my sums are correct. It was a crappy life trying to exist on that (two people, I might add), and it could only happen with the use of credit cards to top up when buying anything remotely expensive.
Let's assume in the UAE it will cost you the full 20,000 GBP per year for your housing, plus I give you my ENTIRE take home pay of 2300 GBP per month for living and fun expenses in the UAE (27,600 GBP per year), you would still be left with a TOTALLY DISPOSABLE 12,500 GBP per year, which is what he says you need to save per month in order to generate the same return as the TPS upon retirement. You would be living a pretty fine life if spending 27,600GBP, rather than 12000 GBP on holidays, food, fun, and other big expenditures, and saving more than enough to boot.
However, this savings rate is still rubbish, and as mentioned above, you will need a lot more to generate the returns you need for a happy retirement, and to account for future inflation.
Right now, in China, I get a free house, a salary in excess of what is being talked about here, and much lower taxes and outgoings due to prices here.
The financial difference between living at home and living here makes me laugh out loud. Hell, including expensive holidays pretty much every holiday, buying what we want (not totally nuts), when we want, and living very happily, the average spend for a year for us as a couple is 16000 GBP. That leaves enough room to save 30-40,000 GBP without even trying that hard, whilst having a much freer and more enjoyable life to boot.
And I am not even paid extravagantly, by international school standards.
I agree with the posters above. You can get to a total of 500,000 GBP as a single person within 10-15 years, and if you are a teaching couple? Well, the possibilities are fun to contemplate.
Lots of sense from roadtorags and the usual stuff from the old dumbell.
Firstly, Dubai College is an excellent school and there are several in the Gulf that would also count as top end, imo. But, having said that, it does depend on your definition of 'top end'.
As I have said on here before, there is no, 'international education system', there is no, 'best paying country', there is no, 'best country for single parents', there is no, 'one size fits all', every school is different!! You have to look at it from your own point of view, are you looking for; stability, pay, location, career prospects, life style, savings potential etc.Then make your own decision on what you are prepared to accept.
As for the article, I would largely agree with roadtorags, having started my career in the UK, many years ago, I had very little disposable income after paying my mortgage et al (Thanks to Mrs Thatchers 16% interest rates). Having moved abroad and selling the aforementioned house In London for a not inconsiderable sum my wife and I lived very much as roadtorags outlines:
the average spend for a year for us as a couple is 16000 GBP. That leaves enough room to save 30-40,000 GBP without even trying that hard, whilst having a much freer and more enjoyable life to boot.
You are mixing up single rates and couple rates. You mean " AS A COUPLE, you can save 30-40GBP a year. As a single person, you would only be saving 15-20k a year. Are you telling me people on a UK teaching salary of £43000 in Inner London, can't save 15k a year???
I'd much rather have a great life in the sun and a comfortable retirement than a crappy life in the rain and a slightly more comfortable retirement.
I don't get people who sacrifice their guaranteed happiness now for potential happiness later.
The article misses the whole point of working overseas for most people.
Ummmm, I HAVE been working overseas for 45+ years. I had a great time in Iran (despite living through the Islamic Revolution) and here in Spain. In fact, I love my job here so much, I still haven't retired even though I've turned 70. We've earned enough between us (my wife has retired) to buy three houses and are free of mortgages. We don't need to rent them out because we don't need the money and prefer to have them for our own occasional use. I have two private pensions which I could have cashed in when I turned 65, but, again, I don't need the money and so I've just left them accruing a little bit of interest so my daughter can inherit them when I pop my clogs. My wife gets about 2,300 euros 14 times a year in state pension, and, even though I'm working, I get a bit more than half that monthly + my regular salary. We're comfortable enough to buy what we need when we want it, and to take the holidays we want when we want them, although with the house, garden and pool here in Madrid and the house on the beach on the Costa de la Luz, along with the need to visit relatives in England and Ireland, most of our free time is spoken for.
I'm REALLY glad I left England when I did, both for financial reasons, but more because I was freed from the petty-fogging bureaucracy that even 45 years ago had begun to invade education back there...
Wow MikeTribe, still teaching at 70 when you don't need the money. You have to admire this man's passion. More power to you! And enjoying the amazing Spanish lifestyle as you go - there are some things money can't buy!
I don't share quite the same passion, although I enjoy my job. I'll be retiring when my pot hits £2million in a couple of years.
'You are mixing up single rates and couple rates. You mean " AS A COUPLE, you can save 30-40GBP a year. As a single person, you would only be saving 15-20k a year. Are you telling me people on a UK teaching salary of £43000 in Inner London, can't save 15k a year???'
You need to read more carefully puertadelvino. I made no claims as to what I earn nor what I could save, I merely said that I largely agreed with his/her post and that I lived very much as he/she outlines, in both the UK, some years ago, and abroad, in the years since.
Quote" You are mixing up single rates and couple rates. You mean " AS A COUPLE, you can save 30-40GBP a year. As a single person, you would only be saving 15-20k a year. Are you telling me people on a UK teaching salary of £43000 in Inner London, can't save 15k a year???"
@PuertaDelVino Refer to my accounting for my monthly expenses in the paragraphs prior to this. I admit, I was supporting myself and my partner on a single salary in London, which may have inflated some costs a little, but not much. If you can save 15000GBP per year on 12000 GBP of discretionary income (that has to cover all costs outside rent / utlities / internet etc), then more power to your budgeting skills.
If you can't save 30000+ GBP per year on a single salary in international teaching, get more salary, or cut back your lifestyle more. Those are the only two ways to make it happen.
No. I live in Inner London, earn significantly more than £43k, and saving £15k would involve me staying at home, leaving the heating off, and eating beans on toast most days.
If you live like this you should be able to save more than 15!