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Overseas PGCE Training

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by marcus95, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. Hi I would like to do my PGCE training at an International school and
    am aware that there international schools that offer training posts.
    However I am finding it hard to locate schools that offer such placements.
    I have contacted universities who run an Overseas PGCE ( post grad cert ed )
    but due to the data protection act were unable to release tha names of the schools they
    work with. Does anyone know where I could find a list of international schools that offer
    PGCE training ( both primary/secondary) in any location.


  2. Hi I would like to do my PGCE training at an International school and
    am aware that there international schools that offer training posts.
    However I am finding it hard to locate schools that offer such placements.
    I have contacted universities who run an Overseas PGCE ( post grad cert ed )
    but due to the data protection act were unable to release tha names of the schools they
    work with. Does anyone know where I could find a list of international schools that offer
    PGCE training ( both primary/secondary) in any location.


  3. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Dear Mark,
    Please do not be offended, but I read your post with more than a little scepticism. It does not seem to make a lot of sense to me. However, I did do my PGCE rather a long time ago, so maybe my information is out of date.
    First of all, the Postgraduate Certificate in Education (PGCE) is designed to prepare students to teach in the UK, not in international schools. Most schools in the UK follow the English National Curriculum, whereas an awful lot of international schools do not. Even those international schools that say that they do follow the English National Curriculum do not really follow all of it, only bits and pieces, and they do not follow it in the same way as schools in the UK.
    Secondly, an essential part of the PGCE course is Teaching Practice (aka TP). What normally happens is that during TP, your lessons will be observed by a lecturer from your teacher training college. How is a lecturer from a teacher training college in the UK going to observe your lessons in Cairo or Shanghai? And who will pay for all of his or her airfares and hotel bills?
    Thirdly, most international schools are fee-paying schools and therefore they have no desire or need to help you to get your PGCE. Some of them, the dodgier ones, may want to employ you without a PGCE as cheap labour, but my advice would be to avoid such places.
    If you really want to move into the exciting world of international education, my advice would be to get your PGCE done and dusted in the UK and then think about looking for jobs overseas. A useful stepping stone might be a CELTA qualification. International House are supposed to be good. A CELTA can definitely be done outside the UK and it would give you an internationally recognised qualification. Of course a CELTA is only really for teaching English and so sooner or later you would probably want to do your PGCE as well.
  4. invincible

    invincible New commenter

    I've never heard of international schools that do the PGCE. I know you can do the PGCE by distance learning whereby you do a couple of TPs that are monitored on video by the uni. However, this kind of PGCE does not confer you with a teaching certification (i.e. QTS) and you would then find it difficult to get a job in an international school, especially those that have to take certified and registered teachers. As The Hippo said, you can only get teacher certification by completing TPs in the UK and thus doing the PGCE in the UK makes more sense.
  5. I'm not really sure what you are asking.
    Schools don't normally do the PGCE training, the training is done by a university with placements at a school.
    If you do an overseas PGCE, they will sort out your placements or provide you with the information you need to sort it out.
    I have never heard of a university doing an overseas PGCE and if someone has told you that schools exist where you can do PGCE training overseas, why not go back to that source and ask where.
  6. We had people do the PGCE at our school, though they had to sort out the PGCE part - I think it was through Sunderland Uni they do a course that can be completed at international schools. Which is fine but none of the folk who did the course at our school coule get a job there as you need 5 years experience. Also I felt their course was a complete joke and would shudder if one of them ended up teaching my kids (erm that is if I had any).
    dermhurl and armandine2 like this.
  7. roamingteacher

    roamingteacher Established commenter Forum guide

    The only way I have known people to live abroad and do a PGCE was through Australian universities. They provide a qualification recognised more or less globally. However, you will need to find a school (or actually be employed in one?) to complete the course. And it's really expensive - about £8k+ from what I understand...
  8. I helped research this recently for a friend who works in Holland. My understanding is that what Frozennorth is correct.
    You might be well advised to get in touch with the Council of International Schools who might well be able to point you in the right direction.
    Good luck!
  9. dylan11

    dylan11 New commenter

    Stichting NOB does a PGCE, but in Dutch.
  10. the university of Sunderland does an online pgce. all these online pgces are a joke. the unis have realised there is a market in overseas unqualified English teachers who want a piece of paper. The course is easy, you have 2 observations the whole year which from what I have heard, they are impossible to fail. No good feedback from experienced staff, just jumping through hoops to ceertificate.

    I would advice against it unless you can't cope with a proper Uk based PGCE
    dermhurl likes this.
  11. Lots of International schools do take PGCE students though the students are usually locally based, ie. their partner is working in the country. The student has to fund the PGCE themselves and that includes paying for the lecturer to be flown out from the UK and all expenses. It is therefore much more expensive than doing it in the UK. The student will also not gain QTS unless they complete their induction year in the UK. If you don't want to return to the UK, then this doesn't matter. I work at an International school and we have had PGCE students each year that I have been here. Also, lots of International schools do follow the National Curriculum - you just need to check first. My school has a good reputation and they want PGCE students as it helps keep them up to date with new training iniatives that are happening in the UK. Unless you are already based in another country, I wouldn't recommend doing a PGCE overseas (unless of course you have lots of cash!).
  12. <font size="2">All spot on, my wife his just about to complete the IPGCE through long distance learning at Nottingham University.</font><font size="2">Like said above the you have to pay for the course yourself, for that the tutors come to Bangkok for a week for the induction and first unit, the other units you complete yourself.</font><font size="2">The strange thing about this course is that you don&rsquo;t officially get observed, the Sunderland one you get 2 observations.</font><font size="2">My wife works as a boarding parent, so off her own back she has done 2, 6 week placement in the primary school, they were very impressed with her so have offered her a job for next year. Another person doing the course at the same time didn't get a job.</font><font size="2">The certificate won&rsquo;t allow her to teach as a qualified teacher in the UK, but when we go back we will look for her to do the GTP scheme or at worst the PGCE in England.</font><font size="2">It has been worth her doing it as the cost of her course will be paid for with her increase in salary over there next two years and also allows her to do a job she enjoys.</font><font size="2">People doing this course on the Sunderland one will find it hard to get into a good international school after they have completed the course, unless that are already at the school in another capacity. </font><font size="2">The course has good and bad points, but it has worked out well for us.</font>
  13. I did my PGCE whilst at The British School of Beijing under Univ. of Buckingham. I believe they still do it even though they have been sold to Nord Anglia. The parent company are The British Schools Group and I believe they still offer the at their schools in Moscow, Nanjing, Guangzhou and Kuala Lumpur. They generally like you to begin as a TA and then if you show the potential offer you PGCE. They pay all expenses for trips to UK and visits of tutors as well as course fees. A number of us are now happily enjoying the international circuit although this PGCE only allows you to teach at private schools when you return to the UK or b egin your NQT year - I think!
  14. I did the Australian equivalent of a PGCE - a Graduate Diploma of Education via distance education through Monash University, as Mr Bowtruckle's work means we are based outside of Oz. The university requires that you do at least 25 days of your teaching placement at an Australian school. (Things may have changed - this was a few years ago.) I did two teaching placements that were arranged through Monash - one in Australia, and one overseas. Both placements included observations by university staff. My final placement I arranged myself at an international school in the country we were living in at the time.
    The course is fully accredited by the Victorian Institute of Teaching (VIT). I received the same award as on-campus students. It doesn't mention "distance education" anywhere. I could download podcasts of the lectures that on-campus students attended etc. - I think it was pretty well done and I don't consider it to be an inferior qualification. I've heard there are Australian universities that allow you to complete all teaching placements overseas. I'm glad I did some through the uni - I think it adds credibility. It was expensive though!
    It would be an expensive option for non-Australians. The 2010 fees are $17,500 Aussie, so a little under 10,000 pounds. Add a school placement on top of that and it would a hefty investment.
  15. imraan_biotech

    imraan_biotech New commenter


    This is Mohammad Khan from India, I was so curious to get into PGCE either in UEL (Uni of East London) or in Uni of Greenwich, but the problem I am facing is so quite annoying to me. I was instructed to proceed to have my UCAS Number, which I registered as an overseas student, but when I enter into my UCAS Portal it says I am not fully registered, however, the problem is I need to take something called Professional skills test, but unfortunately when I entered details about that test, it says that is basically taken in UK test centres only not in outside of UK. Now, my problem is without UCAS number I can't apply to the University as am sure and without UCAS I can't proceed to apply for a visa for studying PGCE. Is there anything I can do in order to take that professional skills test to finish my UCAS registration and then to proceed to have an offer letter from the Uni that I am gonna apply to and then for visa. Any help from anyone would be of great value to me.
  16. imraan_biotech

    imraan_biotech New commenter

    As an international student will I be able to get a work permit from the School if I finish my PGCE and then if I got selected in the interview to work in any schools in London?
  17. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    @imraan_biotech You do not seem to have any understanding whatsoever of the PGCE.

    The PGCE is a course designed to train people who want to work in UK schools. Before you apply you must spend time in UK schools, gaining an understanding of the British curriculum and the role of teachers - if you have not spent any time in a UK school you simply will not be offered a place on a course. Your application must be supported by two references, detailing your suitability to cope with the academic requirements of the course, and your suitability to work with children. All courses require a face-to-face interview, which will also involve you perhaps teaching a lesson, completing a task with other applicants, or doing a written task to show your subject knowledge. You must complete the maths and literacy skills tests, which can only be completed in the UK. You must have passed the equivalent of GCSE English and Maths at grade C or above. As you are not a UK citizen you would also need to complete IELTS to at least level 7, and have your educational certificates verified.

    The PGCE is nothing like a Masters course. You spend most of your time in schools training on the job. You do not spend much time at university at all, although you still complete university work. You do not simply apply for a place on a course, and be offered one because you have gained a degree in the subject area.

    It is July now, PGCE courses start in September; even if you had experience in UK schools, there is not enough time for you to do all of the above in order to be offered a place on a course, so there is no point proceeding with your UCAS application.

    Have you ever been to the UK? Have you ever spent time in a British school? Do you have any experience with children? If not, why do you want to train to be a UK teacher?

    I think you will find it very difficult to find a school willing to take on someone who requires a work permit. What subject/age did you want to teach?
  18. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    There seems to be some confusion about online PGCEs, "international" PGCEs and PGCEs that are based in reputable universities in the UK, with Teaching Practice in the UK. Yes, of course there will always be online PGCEs, online PhDs and every other online programme, course and certificate you can think of. Whether a reputable international school will ever prefer one of these online qualifications to the real thing remains to be proved, I think.

    Having taught in international schools since 1998, I would say that teaching in the UK is not the same as teaching at an international school. It never has been and it never will be. Therefore it follows that teaching qualifications that are gained online or outside the UK will probably not be the same.
  19. Hardwrker007

    Hardwrker007 New commenter

    I currently teach in the Middle East and have taught there for almost 2 years now ( with 2 years also teaching in the UK) and both schools as 'the hippo' mentioned teach the English National Curriculum how they want to. I believe this is purely because well in my case because half of the staff are not UK trained so they are unfamiliar with the curriculum. Also, in my school they don't half moan about it with regards to differentiation and personalised learning and levels...I could go on! It is the school's fault for employing teachers who are not familiar with it.

    Anyways going back to the PGCEi, I personally would not recommend this PGCEi because not all international schools will accept it and I don't think the training is effective or thorough enough. There is nothing like an actual tutor/mentor observing you in person where you can also reflect upon your teaching with them. Also, I would much rather get the 'official' PGCE with QTS and my NQT done and dusted and know that I can travel all around the world, than only be restricted to one continent, as you never know when your circumstances might change.

    In my school one member of staff has fully completed it 2 years ago who has now been promoted to Assistant Head Teacher and thinks she is amazing ( yes I know and she worked as a TA for 8 years before I think! ) and another 3 are currently midway through their course. Out of the 4, 3 are non UK teachers who are being mentored in my school by each other ( how does that figure?). So I have my doubts about this course...

    The point I am getting across is, depending on what you want from the job/experience I would seriously think about obtaining the UK based PGCE and not the PGCEi.
  20. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    I would be more annoyed that a former TA with only a iPGCE got promoted before i did !!!!! Doesnt sound like a quality school :p

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