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"Outstanding" teachers from girls grammar showing us how to teach!!

Discussion in 'Mathematics' started by mathsboddeen, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. It's all so sad.

    Some pupils in boys and girls grammar schools got their because they "bright". Many got there because their parents are wealthy enough to afford tutors leading up to the 11 plus and then rich enough to keep up this support. Poorer pupils are disadvantaged as they then have no choice but to be dumped in concentrated form in schools like where I work, along with all the others who couldn't afford to fund tutors when they were 9 and 10. I have no problem with private education - if parents want to fund that then fine, go ahead. But to have us all fund schools for the children of families who could afford tutors to get them through the 11 plus is just wrong, and then to think their taxes are paying for this is adding insult to injury.

    All children deserve an equal start in life. The girls grammar school down the road from my school soaks like a sponge the talent from the local area (and beyond as the catchment area stretches quite far). It leaves us with a reputation that's hard to shake off, that means we lack a proportion of parents from better-off professional families, who may be able to contribute in all kinds of ways to our school that unemployed parents can't, and leaves pupils feeling failures from aged 11. Our school looks and feels like it belongs in a third world slum and the grammar schools in the town are directly responsible for this.

    The arrogant Heads of the grammar schools sending off their "outstanding" Maths teachers to schools like mine to sort them out beggers belief! Perhaps we need to bow lower as they walk through the door.
  2. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    I don't think these heads have a great deal of choice. From what I'm told this kind of thing is a government initiative. As for their arrogance, I doubt that it's confined to heads of grammar schools.
  3. I haven't heard that it is obligatory. Heads don't have to take part even if they were asked to. Besides, it's clear that sending in chalk to sort out cheese won't help. Maths teachers from grammar schools should keep their shameful heads low and cruise along teaching Daisy and Pruscilla, while the rest of us deal with the dire consequences of having grammar schools in our area in Scumsville Academy. Oh, when will someone rid us of these leeches?
  4. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    And yet, some comprehensives, such as the one my daughter went to, seem to do pretty well despite there being grammar schools in the area. So, perhaps there are other factors at work here.

    BTW, it is OFSTED who deem schools to be Outstanding, not the "arrogant" Heads. The situations I have known of this kind have been where the struggling school asked for help from the outstanding one; surely it would have been arrogant to refuse.

    Perhaps the debate about whether Grammar schools should exist belongs in Opinion - it seems to have moved away from being specifically about Maths.
  5. should this happen? it is fun!
  6. Karvol

    Karvol Occasional commenter

    This debate was really never about the maths. The OP has consistently refused to say what it was that gave such great offence - probably because he or she realises that it may place them in a less than gratifying light.

    I do also find it rather sad that, rather than looking at what their schools do well, there is clearly a sense of inferiority from some of those teachers who are teaching at the non-selective schools.
  7. blue117

    blue117 New commenter

  8. bombaysapphire

    bombaysapphire Star commenter

    The first link refers to a single example.

    The second link compares students with the same A level grades. That means a less able student (considering the degree level achieved) manages better A level grades in the private sector than they would have done in the comprehensive sector. It must be a disappointment that this overperformance is not maintained but it can be interpreted as a positive for the school.
  9. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Grammar schools vary quite a lot. It is interesting that my daughter and three friends have (it appears) similar intelligence. Two of them got into a grammar school, while my daughter and another didn't. The two who went to a comprehensive did much better in their GCSEs. But they were at a school that chose to do their best for their students, rather than complaining that it wasn't fair that the grammars got the best students.
  10. A very interesting link above. The good thing about teaching Daisy and Pruscilla and their classmates is that you only have to worry about teaching a few in their class, the ones whose tutors got them into school when they were in primary school, even though there were other, poorer, children far more deserving but unable to afford the tutors. All the others will cruise and do well mostly, however bad the teacher. They can spend all their time going on trips (paid for by Daddy of course) and they'll catch up or playing with their IPhone in the classroom. We Scumsville Academy teachers, however, will do our level best for everyone at all times. The sponge that has soaked up the talent from down the road from us will not deter us, despite what they have done to our students, our school and the area.

    It is so sad that Grammar Schools think that they have the right to send in their "outstanding" teachers to Scumsville Academy, after soaking up all of the pupils from mostly middle class mostly well off, mostly professional families for themselves. They must have such an easy time controlling behaviour and dealing with poverty-related issues (such as Daddy not giving them £1500 to go on the trip this term). Aside from them laughingly trying to come across as somehow doing us Scummies a favour, it is a totally different environment, which I doubt very much they can remember and they certainly haven't kept up-to-date with.

    Just remember when they turn up in September. Bow low regularly, smile and don't engage them in conversations unless you have to. Be professional, but .....
  11. karel

    karel Occasional commenter

    cawlady. Going back over this forum, which I've been reading on and off since it started, I realised that you are not the OP. This person seems to have disappeared despite being asked several times what it was that the grammar school teachers did/said that offended him/her so much. It is clear though that you have the same feeling as the original poster about the grammar school teachers.So I have 2 questions for you:

    1. Do you have direct experience of teaching the type of students that you describe and insist on calling Daisy and Pruscilla?

    2. Has your school also have grammer school teachers come in, and if so what was the feedback that they gave?

    3. Are you OP, but have changed your username?
  12. karel

    karel Occasional commenter

    I do realise that I typed 2 questions and wrote 3 questions, before someone points that out.
  13. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I also would be interested to know where cawlady's information comes from. I assume it must be from having worked in a grammar school, as there is so much detail. My own experience is different - there are plenty of students from poorer backgrounds. I have never taught a Daisy or a Pruscilla. Teachers do there level best for all their students - I can't understand why you think they don't.

    As has been pointed out before, it is not the grammar school deciding to send their teachers in, but the school being told to. And, they did earn the right to be called outstanding - it does not go with being a grammar school. And, plenty of comprehensives achieve it.

    It is a shame you feel the need to denigrate your own school.
  14. Really?

    I thought most of us had taught a Daisy at some time in our lives.

    Some people should not be allowed to name their children. There was a Flame on TV the other morning. Damn parents should hang their heads in shame. Bloody stupid name.
  15. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I have led a very sheltered life. Hardly a floral name in sight!
  16. It would constitute some interesting research, to compare the instances of chav names in our school compared to the school for Princesses.

    We are back in school soon so it will be interesting to see the next round of genius level lessons the hapless ones from Grammar School for Little Pony Princesses deliver. I hope to God they are better than the last ones we saw, for the students' sake. I must remember to take notes and nod in the right places the next time they impart their wise words.
  17. Good luck next week! Don't let the visiting geniuses get you down. I'm sure they will run a mile from Scumsville Academy at they first sign of what we have to deal with every single day and go running back to their Pony Princesses' classes.
  18. I am gobsmacked by some of the comments made.

    Are the people posting them willing to reveal their identity and the schools they work at?
  19. In this atmosphere of blame, apportioning fault, performance management and performance pay, it will be very interesting to see how many posters take up your kind offer to 'reveal their identity and the schools they work at?' Out of interest, how will that help?
  20. DuckMeat

    DuckMeat New commenter

    It's not being 'outstanding' every lesson, but it's the outstanding progress students make over time given their starting points. If the 'princesses' you refer to aren't making the progress expected, then questions rightly need to be asked. I accept that it's a different ball park teaching inner city to the leafy suburb. "Open you page to 148 and work through" won't cut the mustard, and a performance is required to keep the kids with you.

    For the record, I'm not a grammar school teacher, and teach in a mixed comp. I just think you're perhaps being a little unfair to fellow professionals who teach kids presented before them that happen to have won the postcode lottery of life. I've been surprised by some of the comments on this thread having been a reader for many years, usually comes across as measured and reasoned thoughts.

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